Reflections on the awfulness of the Pac 12

[calicoug]

I think it's close. I really don't see how anyone could say there's an obvious answer which seems to be what you suggest.

But you are dodging the issue. Put Oregon in the win column for your analysis. Now add up the others, show your work, and let's see which conference you conclude is better over 10 years.

[LA Ute]

O, beware, my lord, of jealousy;
It is the green-eyed monster which doth mock
The meat it feeds on....

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I think it's close. I really don't see how anyone could say there's an obvious answer which seems to be what you suggest.

But you are dodging the issue. Put Oregon in the win column for your analysis. Now add up the others, show your work, and let's see which conference you conclude is better over 10 years.

I want to evaluated 7 years or 11 years, mainly due to my love of delicious Slurpees sold at 7-11. I don't put any value in theories that involved 10 years, to my knowledge there is no 10 store, and they don't have a delicious frozen drink.

[New Mexican Disaster]

O, beware, my lord, of jealousy;
It is the green-eyed monster which doth mock
The meat it feeds on....

Where does excessive pride fit in?

[calicoug]

I want to evaluated 7 years or 11 years, mainly due to my love of delicious Slurpees sold at 7-11. I don't put any value in theories that involved 10 years, to my knowledge there is no 10 store, and they don't have a delicious frozen drink.

Haha! Fair enough. Although if you go to 11 years, Miami won the national title and Oregon did not (they finished a lowly 2nd).

[Portland Ute]

Where does excessive pride fit in?

It fits perfectly in Utah county.

[Scorcho]

first time PAC-12 has two teams in the top 5 in forever equates to PAC-12 football being awful? That just seems odd to me. And making that statement after week #1 seems premature.

8-3 OOC record in week 1 is not great, but it's clearly not awful.

[calicoug]

first time PAC-12 has two teams in the top 5 in forever equates to PAC-12 football being awful? That just seems odd to me. And making that statement after week #1 seems premature.

8-3 OOC record in week 1 is not great, but it's clearly not awful.

No- made before week 1 (at least before Saturday of week 1).

I don't know why people have such a hard time seeing past the top of a conference. Apparently, "top to bottom" for most people means only "top."

[CardiacCoug]

first time PAC-12 has two teams in the top 5 in forever equates to PAC-12 football being awful? That just seems odd to me. And making that statement after week #1 seems premature.

8-3 OOC record in week 1 is not great, but it's clearly not awful.

I would sum it up as 5-3 against FBS with all wins coming against Sagarin 70th ranked or lower and 4 out of 5 wins at home.

Not a single good win yet for the conference and a very bad loss to #124 Sagarin rated Colorado State, but the PAC 12 is probably the third best football conference -- it's still early and USC is probably going to run the table.

[Scorcho]

I would sum it up as 5-3 against FBS with all wins coming against Sagarin 70th ranked or lower and 4 out of 5 wins at home.

Not a single good win yet for the conference and a very bad loss to #124 Sagarin rated Colorado State, but the PAC 12 is probably the third best football conference -- it's still early and USC is probably going to run the table.

not shocked that a 10 loss Colorado Team (last year) lost to Colorado St, or that a Washington St Team that has lost 40 games in the last 4 years was defeated in Provo. Exactly how many good wins for the conference were available? One?

[CardiacCoug]

not shocked that a 10 loss Colorado Team (last year) lost to Colorado St, or that a Washington St Team that has lost 40 games in the last 4 years was defeated in Provo. Exactly how many good wins for the conference were available? One at most

Sure, week one is for warming up against a patsy. I'm not a PAC-12 or Utah hater.

[calicoug]

not shocked that a 10 loss Colorado Team (last year) lost to Colorado St, or that a Washington St Team that has lost 40 games in the last 4 years was defeated in Provo. Exactly how many good wins for the conference were available? One?

Keep on going up the ladder and you'll pretty quickly see why I think the conference has been lousy of late. You're off to a good start.

[BackBlast]

Keep on going up the ladder and you'll pretty quickly see why I think the conference has been lousy of late. You're off to a good start.

Whine, whine, cry, cry! My glory is bigger than yours! Do you really have nothing better to do?

[LA Ute]

Where does excessive pride fit in?

The green-eyed monster wears it on his sleeve.

[Paperback Writer]

I come back to this thread and I find Top Ute making a far more absurd point than Cali's original point -- which Utah is in the same class as USC.

There were classifications for great and good. Utah does not belong in the great category with USC. Of course it depends on one's definition of great, but I don't think I can put any more than, say, ten programs in the country in the great category and Utah is not close to that.

I think if we bring in the MAC and Sunbelt teams, well of course Kal would be in the good category but typically when judging one BCS conference against another, you're talking about whether its teams are good vis a vis other teams in other BCS conferences.

Also, I think you have to weight what these teams have done in the past 5 years more rather than weight the last 5 years equally with the 5 years before that. For example, how many of the Pac 10's coaches were with these teams 10 years ago? Isn't Mike Riley the longest tenured coach in the Pac 10, Whittingham's second?

Here's how I'd judge the Pac 10 (putting weight on the past 5 years, much, much more than the 5 years before that, also I'm looking at this thing like a bell curve):

Great: USC and Oregon
Good: Utah, Stanford (they'd be great if they still had Harbaugh right?)
Average: Kal, Oregon State, Arizona State, Arizona, UCLA (barely)
Below Average: Washington, Colorado
Poor: WSU

The SEC is the best conference in the country -- period. I've kicked against the pricks long enough on this. How many programs are in the great category? LSU, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, do we leave Auburn out even though they just won a title two years ago? Then we have Georgia in the good category but they're close to great themselves. Missouri's in the good category. Do we leave Tennessee and Mississippi State out of the good category or are they average. Who would you rather play in any given week, Oregon State or Mississippi State right now?

Losing Nebraska and Missouri hurt the Big 12, but picking up TCU was pretty nice. Texas, Oklahoma and, yes, TCU sitting atop the Big 12 compares favorably with the top 3 programs in the Pac 10. Slight edge to the Big 12. Even Baylor's tough right now and K-State seems to be feisty with Snyder back at coach. Okie State is very good right now. Craig James asshole son (who didn't fall far from the tree at all) ruined a good thing at Texas Tech even though the morons in TT's administration wanted Leach out anyway. TT is merely average now. Kansas is in the dumps. From top to bottom, I'm afraid the Big 12 is better than the Pac 10, but I don't think it's a huge margin and some years it's better than the Big 12.

After that, I think the Pac 10 is much better than the ACC and Big East (of course) and it's better than the Big 10. I think it's ridiculous to say the Pac 10 isn't better than the ACC. And, quite simply, the Pac 10 is better than the Big 10.

I agree with all your "talking points" except a few that I hestitate to bring up in an otherwise excellent post. Arkansas does not fit into the "Great" category. A better argument can be made for Auburn and Georgia. Auburn has a recent national championship and another undefeated season. Georgia has been to three BCS bowls since 2000 to Arkansas' one. In my view Arkansas fits into the "Good" category. Here's some data from 2000-2011 from the top SEC programs:

It's hard to debate whether the PAC-12 is better than the Big 12 because of all the changes that have occurred in the Big 12. Agree that losing Nebraska and Missouri hurt but also losing Texas A&M hurt. I think the "old" Big-12 was easily better than the PAC-10 but now I have my doubts. Time will tell.

I also take exception to the comment that the PAC-12 is better than the Big 10. The PAC-12 was better in 2011 but not since 2000. Here is the data from the past 12 seasons (2000-2011) since I think 150 games is sufficient.
*Note: I listed Colorado and Nebraska as if they were in the PAC-12 and Big Ten the entire period. I feel it is an accurate picture because they competed in a similar BCS conference. However, Utah's data is skewed since I don't feel they have a similar degree of success playing a a BCS conference as opposed to the MWC.