Reflections on the awfulness of the Pac 12

[All-American]

I'm not sure how the focus turned so heavily to Cal, but I'll go with it.

Here's their record for the past 10 years:

2002: 7-5 (4-4) T-4th
2003: 8-6 (5-3) T-3rd
2004: 10-2 (7-1)- 2nd in Pac
2005: 8-4 (4-4) T-4th
2006: 10-3 (7-2) T-1st in Pac
2007: 7-6 (3-6) T-7th
2008: 9-4 (6-3) 4th
2009: 8-5 (5-4) T-5th
2010: 5-7 (3-6) 8th
2011: 7-6 (4-5) 4th

So, in 10 years, they have been in 4th place in conference 4 times, in 3rd once, in 2nd once and in 1st once. That's 7 top 4 finishes in 10 years.

If you are making the argument that notwithstanding the foregoing Cal is a below average team, I suppose that would bolster my overall argument about the Pac 12. If a below average team is placing 4th or higher 70% of the time, the conference may be even worse than I thought.

Who said anything about "below average"?

[calicoug]

The SEC is better than the Pac 12. The Big East and ACC are worse. Big 12 and B1G it depends on the year.

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I think the Big 12 is the best conference in America, top to bottom.

I think the SEC suffers from some of the same problem the Pac 12 has- it is very good at the top but awful at the bottom (with more teams than you would expect occupying "awful" status).

The bottom of the Big 12 is much better than the bottom of the Pac 12 and SEC.

I think top to bottom the Big 10 and ACC are also better than the Pac 12.

The Big East shouldn't be considered one of the major conferences anymore.

[calicoug]

Who said anything about "below average"?

Sorry- you're right. The argument was "average."

[Top Ute]

I'm not sure how the focus turned so heavily to Cal, but I'll go with it.

We've been through this before. Your assessment of Cal is right in line with what you're saying about the Pac-12. It's lacking sorely in credibility and substance.

[MartyFunkhouser]

I think the Big 12 is the best conference in America, top to bottom.

I think the SEC suffers from some of the same problem the Pac 12 has- it is very good at the top but awful at the bottom (with more teams than you would expect occupying "awful" status).

The bottom of the Big 12 is much better than the bottom of the Pac 12 and SEC.

I think top to bottom the Big 10 and ACC are also better than the Pac 12.

The Big East shouldn't be considered one of the major conferences anymore.

The ACC better than the Pac 12, yes your jealousy and anger about byu being excluded is showing.

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[calicoug]

We've been through this before. Your assessment of Cal is right in line with what you're saying about the Pac-12. It's lacking sorely in credibility and substance.

Like I said above, Cal has finished in the top 4 of the Pac 12 seven of the past 10 seasons. I think that's good. Their winning percentage overall in the 10 year period is also above average. But tell me your order. Put the Pac 12 teams into the groups I listed in the first post.

[pellegrino]

Like I said above, Cal has finished in the top 4 of the Pac 12 seven of the past 10 seasons. I think that's good. Their winning percentage overall in the 10 year period is also above average. But tell me your order. Put the Pac 12 teams into the groups I listed in the first post.

cali, you seem to be on the wrong side of too many arguments here, and by "wrong side" I don't mean that your analyses (in this or in other threads) are incorrect.

[Top Ute]

Like I said above, Cal has finished in the top 4 of the Pac 12 seven of the past 10 seasons. I think that's good. Their winning percentage overall in the 10 year period is also above average. But tell me your order. Put the Pac 12 teams into the groups I listed in the first post.

Great: USC, Oregon, Utah
Good: Oregon State (you underrated OSU as badly as you overestimated Cal)
Average: ASU, Stanford, Cal, UCLA
Below Average: Arizona, Washington, Colorado
Awful: Washington State

Now how about over a 5 year basis?

Great: USC, Oregon
Good: Stanford, Utah
Average: OSU, Arizona, ASU, Cal
Below Average: Washington, UCLA
Awful: WSU, Colorado

And on a 2 year basis?

Great: Oregon, Stanford, USC
Good: Utah
Average: Washington, Cal
Below Average: ASU, Arizona, UCLA
Awful: Colorado, Washington State

[All-American]

Like I said above, Cal has finished in the top 4 of the Pac 12 seven of the past 10 seasons. I think that's good. Their winning percentage overall in the 10 year period is also above average. But tell me your order. Put the Pac 12 teams into the groups I listed in the first post.

4 out of 10 teams is just about the middle of the pack (and doesn't consider the three years they finished worse than 4). All in all, their final ranking in the last decade averages out to be 4.2 out of 10. So they're in the middle of a PAC which, measured against the other major conferences, is also in the middle of the pack. "Average" is a fitting term for the middle of the middle.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Watching the Rocky Mountain Showdown game on FX right now, Colorado is bad bad bad.

[All-American]

Totally irrelevant data point: Cal just lost to Nevada.

[calicoug]

The ACC better than the Pac 12, yes your jealousy and anger about byu being excluded is showing.

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Yes- top to bottom.

Line them up and ask who would win over a 10 year period.

USC v. Va Tech- USC
Oregon v. Miami- Miami
Utah v. FSU- FSU
Cal v. GT- GT
Stanford v. BC- Stanford
OSU v. Clemson- Clemson
ASU v. NC State- ASU
UCLA v. Maryland- Maryland
Washington v. UVA- coin flip
Arizona v. Wake- Wake
WSU v. UNC- UNC
Colorado v. Duke- nobody cares.

Total as I see it: Pac 12: 3, ACC: 7, Other: 2

[calicoug]

cali, you seem to be on the wrong side of too many arguments here, and by "wrong side" I don't mean that your analyses (in this or in other threads) are incorrect.

What can I say. I'm a contrarian at heart.

[Top Ute]

Yes- top to bottom.

Line them up and ask who would win over a 10 year period.

USC v. Va Tech- USC
Oregon v. Miami- Miami
Utah v. FSU- FSU
Cal v. GT- GT
Stanford v. BC- Stanford
OSU v. Clemson- Clemson
ASU v. NC State- ASU
UCLA v. Maryland- Maryland
Washington v. UVA- coin flip
Arizona v. Wake- Wake
WSU v. UNC- UNC
Colorado v. Duke- nobody cares.

Total as I see it: Pac 12: 3, ACC: 7, Other: 2

I'm done. Miami over Oregon? Three BCS bowls to one? One NC game appearance to zero?

Florida State over Utah? The former has two 10-win seasons; the latter has four. BCS bowl wins? Zero for FSU, two for Utah. And UNC on the same level as Washington State? Stop it already.

[TripletDaddy]

Great: USC, Oregon, Utah
Good: Oregon State (you underrated OSU as badly as you overestimated Cal)
Average: ASU, Stanford, Cal, UCLA
Below Average: Arizona, Washington, Colorado
Awful: Washington State

You lost me here, hermano. Just as you didn't want Utah lumped in the same level as Kal, please don't equate Utahs past decade with SCs. It just isn't even close.