Reflections on the awfulness of the Pac 12

[UtahJazzFan88]

Stanford really helped make the case for the awfulness of the PAC-12 right now.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I get the premise, but Cal is the epitome of an underachiever.

Cal is an underachiever only because Tedford looks like Amos Alonzo Stagg when compared to Tom Holmoe. He took a team that was the worst in the Pac 10, maybe country, and turned them into a bowl team that on good years could challenge for a conference title.

[LA Ute]

[The_Douger]

Cal is an underachiever only because Tedford looks like Amos Alonzo Stagg when compared to Tom Holmoe. He took a team that was the worst in the Pac 10, maybe country, and turned them into a bowl team that on good years could challenge for a conference title.

See, but that's the thing. They don't challenge for the conference title. Nobody takes them seriously. They routinely get pounded by decent teams. They haven't played in the Rose Bowl for over 50 years.

I would never put them on Utah's level with regards to competing in the PAC. I get that they beat Utah last year, but Cal hardly makes anyone in the league nervous.

They're a perennial 5-7 to 7-5 team.

[All-American]

There's about 120 teams in division 1a football. I don't buy that Cal's numbers reflect average.

And about 40 of them are piss poor.

[MartyFunkhouser]

The Pac 12 has become an embarrassment. I was thinking about the conference today after BYU's lovely win last night.

Separate the major conferences into groups. Let's use "great," "good," "average," "below average," and "awful."

Where would you put Pac 12 teams over, say, a 10 year basis?

I'd go like this:

Great: USC, Oregon
Good: Cal, Utah
Average: OSU, ASU, Stanford
Below Average: UCLA
Awful: Arizona, Washington, Washington State, Colorado

Now how about over a 5 year basis?

Great: USC, Oregon
Good: Stanford, Cal, Utah
Average: OSU, Arizona, ASU
Below Average:
Awful: Washington, WSU, Colorado, UCLA

And on a 2 year basis?

Great: Oregon, Stanford
Good: Utah, USC
Average: Washington
Below Average: Cal, ASU
Awful: Arizona, UCLA, Colorado, Washington State, OSU

Conclusion: The Pac 12 seems to be trending worse. In the past 2 years, over half of the Pac 12 I think would be either below average or awful (with 5 of 7 being awful). It's just a bad conference. Colorado certainly isn't helping anything. Utah is.

Reflections on the jealousy of BYU fans.

Last year the PAC 12 had 3 top 10 teams.


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[Indy Coug]

And about 40 of them are piss poor.

Of course there are. In order for some teams to be better, others have to be worse.

[All-American]

Of course there are. In order for some teams to be better, others have to be worse.

Yet by Cali's admission, we are really only considering major conferences. Expanding the denominator by including teams clinging to the last ring of Division I-A will allow you to call Cal average, but that's not the pool we are swimming in.

[Moliere]

Of course there are. In order for some teams to be better, others have to be worse.

Indy's killing me in this thread. Nothing says "blood in the water" to us numbers folk like a bunch of lawyers trying to redefine statistical terms.

[calicoug]

Yet by Cali's admission, we are really only considering major conferences. Expanding the denominator by including teams clinging to the last ring of Division I-A will allow you to call Cal average, but that's not the pool we are swimming in.

Um, no.

I'm pointing out that the Pac 12 stands out among the major conferences as a bad conference. In no way does that mean the evaluation of Pac 12 teams shouldn't take into consideration all the other teams too.

[calicoug]

And about 40 of them are piss poor.

Yes- the quality at the bottom is very bad. Point?

[All-American]

Um, no.

I'm pointing out that the Pac 12 stands out among the major conferences as a bad conference. In no way does that mean the evaluation of Pac 12 teams shouldn't take into consideration all the other teams too.

So we aren't "Separat[ing] the major conferences into groups" of "great," "good," "average," "below average," and "awful," then? My mistake.

[Top Ute]

Um, no.

I'm pointing out that the Pac 12 stands out among the major conferences as a bad conference. In no way does that mean the evaluation of Pac 12 teams shouldn't take into consideration all the other teams too.

LOL. Using your "tiers" to assess individual Pac-12 teams, it's been pointed out several times that the Pac-12 is far from being a bad major conference. The ACC and Big East are entrenched in that territory.

Just give up, man.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Um, no.

I'm pointing out that the Pac 12 stands out among the major conferences as a bad conference. In no way does that mean the evaluation of Pac 12 teams shouldn't take into consideration all the other teams too.

The SEC is better than the Pac 12. The Big East and ACC are worse. Big 12 and B1G it depends on the year.

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[calicoug]

See, but that's the thing. They don't challenge for the conference title. Nobody takes them seriously. They routinely get pounded by decent teams. They haven't played in the Rose Bowl for over 50 years.

I would never put them on Utah's level with regards to competing in the PAC. I get that they beat Utah last year, but Cal hardly makes anyone in the league nervous.

They're a perennial 5-7 to 7-5 team.

I'm not sure how the focus turned so heavily to Cal, but I'll go with it.

Here's their record for the past 10 years:

2002: 7-5 (4-4) T-4th
2003: 8-6 (5-3) T-3rd
2004: 10-2 (7-1)- 2nd in Pac
2005: 8-4 (4-4) T-4th
2006: 10-3 (7-2) T-1st in Pac
2007: 7-6 (3-6) T-7th
2008: 9-4 (6-3) 4th
2009: 8-5 (5-4) T-5th
2010: 5-7 (3-6) 8th
2011: 7-6 (4-5) 4th

So, in 10 years, they have been in 4th place in conference 4 times, in 3rd once, in 2nd once and in 1st once. That's 7 top 4 finishes in 10 years.

If you are making the argument that notwithstanding the foregoing Cal is a below average team, I suppose that would bolster my overall argument about the Pac 12. If a below average team is placing 4th or higher 70% of the time, the conference may be even worse than I thought.