Roger Reid now a BYU football recruiter?

[Jeff Lebowski]

WSU hit it out of the park with this guy. Leach is awesome.

Beat me to it. I am thrilled that he is back in coaching.

[falafel]

Purely inductive reasoning. Really, you don't see any? Did you not read the article? You may not give the article much weight, but I think it's an entirely plausible situation, and I'd be surprised if it didn't happen a lot, and is therefore "evidense of that sort of conversation happening."

What you call "inductive reasoning" I call speculation. How is your lack of surprise equal to evidence?

To answer you question, I can see Bronco telling a kid he's more likely to go on a mission if he goes to BYU. I believe he's got some amount of statistical evidence of that (you can give the evidence whatever weight you want). But I'm not sure I see Bronco trotting that bit out unless the kid has already expressed an interest in going on a mission. It wouldn't make sense to raise it in any other situation. In that context, it sounds more like recruiting than manipulation. Bronco is extolling the virtues of his school to a kid that has expressed an interest in that area. I'm not sure there's much difference than a a kid expressing an interest in film, and Lane Kiffin telling him he's got a better chance of getting a film made by going there than if he goes to Oregon.

[creekster]

Maybe we can talk about it based on the kid's own words.

Maybe. Not much there to draw any conclusions on, IMO. Doesnt seem like th4re is much to see here, at least not to me. but I am really just avoiding work I dont want to do, so I will bow out.

[Flystripper]

And is this manipulation worthy of approbation? Is it worse than any other type of manipulation int he recruiting process? Should we tell them not to point out that BYU is much more supportive of missions and church activity than any other school? IOW, so what?

Coaches better not say that if the kid goes to a school out of state that their parents won't get to see them play in person very often. Gotta make sure the guilt is toned down.

[Green Monstah]

And is this manipulation worthy of approbation? Is it worse than any other type of manipulation int he recruiting process? Should we tell them not to point out that BYU is much more supportive of missions and church activity than any other school? IOW, so what?

It all depends. Religion can be a fairly sensitive topic for many. Clearly, this kid took umbrage at having his devotion questioned based on an ostensibly non-religious decision. I can see that.

I can also see kids like KVN who desparately need to associate with BYU for religious reasons.

It's a risk BYU has to take, but we shouldn't be shocked when it rubs a particular person the wrong way, should we?

[falafel]

No, I'm saying that they actively play the religion card to recruit. It may come across to a recruit as using religion to manipulate his decision. Strictly speaking, it's an accurate statement.

Strictly speaking, I disagree that "he was manipulated" is an accurate statement given the lack of details we have.

[Green Monstah]

What you call "inductive reasoning" I call speculation. How is your lack of surprise equal to evidence?

To answer you question, I can see Bronco telling a kid he's more likely to go on a mission if he goes to BYU. I believe he's got some amount of statistical evidence of that (you can give the evidence whatever weight you want). But I'm not sure I see Bronco trotting that bit out unless the kid has already expressed an interest in going on a mission. It wouldn't make sense to raise it in any other situation. In that context, it sounds more like recruiting than manipulation. Bronco is extolling the virtues of his school to a kid that has expressed an interest in that area. I'm not sure there's much difference than a a kid expressing an interest in film, and Lane Kiffin telling him he's got a better chance of getting a film made by going there than if he goes to Oregon.

You can call it what you'd like, but I personally have little doubt that religion was one of the recruiting hooks used, and in this situation, it backfired.

1. Bronco has stated publicly that LDS recruits that choose BCS schools are far less likely to go on missions (I believe he stated something like 1 or 2 out of 40, or something like that) and that one of his central goals is to turn football players into exemplary people (going so far as to place football fifth on his list of priorities).

2. It is reasonable to assume that if Bronco makes these statements publicly, he and his recruiters also state them privately to recruits.

3. A former recruit says that BYU told him he would be a bad mormon if he played football at a place other than BYU.

You don't see the connection?

I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong, and quite frankly, it's one of the best angles for the coaching staff to take to land LDS recruits. I also think it's understandable that someone could take offense to this approach. It seems like a way to question a person's devotion, and therefore can be seen as manipulative.

[Green Monstah]

Coaches better not say that if the kid goes to a school out of state that their parents won't get to see them play in person very often. Gotta make sure the guilt is toned down.

Strictly speaking, this is a way to manipulate the kid's decision. Yes.

[Green Monstah]

Strictly speaking, I disagree that "he was manipulated" is an accurate statement given the lack of details we have.

Reasonable minds often differ.

[Spicy McHaggis]

Gotta love the double standard, Utes complain that BYU manipulates kids with religion to get them to come to BYU. But if you even entertain the idea that a certain kid didn't want to come to BYU for honor code reasons(not necessairly honor code issues, just don't want to live their college life under the HC) then Ute fans are enraged!

That makes no sense.

[falafel]

You can call it what you'd like, but I personally have little doubt that religion was one of the recruiting hooks used, and in this situation, it backfired.

1. Bronco has stated publicly that LDS recruits that choose BCS schools are far less likely to go on missions (I believe he stated something like 1 or 2 out of 40, or something like that) and that one of his central goals is to turn football players into exemplary people (going so far as to place football fifth on his list of priorities).

2. It is reasonable to assume that if Bronco makes these statements publicly, he and his recruiters also state them privately to recruits.

3. A former recruit says that BYU told him he would be a bad mormon if he played football at a place other than BYU.

You don't see the connection?

I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong, and quite frankly, it's one of the best angles for the coaching staff to take to land LDS recruits. I also think it's understandable that someone could take offense to this approach. It seems like a way to question a person's devotion, and therefore can be seen as manipulative.

I agree pretty much with every thing you've said, with the exception of the bolded parts. This is where I think you've made a leap that cannot be substantiated at this point.

I'm sure Bronco tells kids about the odds of going on a mission being higher at BYU. I see no reason to believe that is what this kid is talking about. Really, we have absolutely no idea what this kid is talking about. I don't think its useful or productive to speculate that its related to Bronco's prior comments about the likelihood of kids going on missions from other universities.

Maybe Bronco told him "God has revealed to me that you should come to BYU." Or maybe Bronco said "BYU is a place where your faith and knowledge of the gospel can grow." Or maybe he said something in between, or maybe he said nothing at all and the kid was looking for an excuse to turn down BYU because he really didn't want to go there but didn't know how to explain it to his family or his ward. We simply have no idea what was said, if anything was said at all.

[Green Monstah]

I agree pretty much with every thing you've said, with the exception of the bolded parts. This is where I think you've made a leap that cannot be substantiated at this point.

I'm sure Bronco tells kids about the odds of going on a mission being higher at BYU. I see no reason to believe that is what this kid is talking about. Really, we have absolutely no idea what this kid is talking about. I don't think its useful or productive to speculate that its related to Bronco's prior comments about the likelihood of kids going on missions from other universities.

Maybe Bronco told him "God has revealed to me that you should come to BYU." Or maybe Bronco said "BYU is a place where your faith and knowledge of the gospel can grow." Or maybe he said something in between, or maybe he said nothing at all and the kid was looking for an excuse to turn down BYU because he really didn't want to go there but didn't know how to explain it to his family or his ward. We simply have no idea what was said, if anything was said at all.

Manipulation is somewhat subjective, however. You or I could hear Bronco tout mission stats and tout how many players remain active in Church and think "He's right, if I want to go on a mission and be a practicing Mormon, I'd better go to BYU" and others can feel that means, "You can't be a good Mormon elsewhere."

Also, if you sanitize the word "manipulation" of its negative connotation, I think it fairly accurately describes recruiting in general.

I have to bow out, though. I'm way behind on a project for work.

[creekster]

Whats the difrfernce between manipulation and persuasion?

[Pelado]

If you aren't a good mormon, aren't you by definition a bad mormon. Is there such a thing as a neutral mormon.

Heck, check out CB when a kid turns down BYU for somewhere else. Suspicions automatically are he can't live the HC and/or is academically inferior.

FIFY

[YOhio]

G Man tweets:

It should be noted that Asper was a 2004 signee...recruited in 2003 when Empey was the recruit coordinator