Revenge of the Haoles - BYU vs. Hawaii 2011

[cougjunkie]

This.

I don't think we beat Utah (although I think the game would have been far more respectable) but with Riley I think there's a good shot we beat Texas.

Surfah, You need to learn how to win. You're starting to become Hsaru light which is strange because you're a much better guy and poster than that ingrate.

To address your point Riley has aspects of his game that he can improve. People said the same thing about him last year yet this year he's better. He has yet to start what would comprise a full season of games. It's very unfair to say improvement isn't possible.

You are up in the night if you think the game against Utah is more respectable. Jake moved the ball very well in the first half. Is Riley effing Superman? Does he stop JJ and Juice from fumbling? Does he return kicks so Falslev doesn't fumble? Would Bronco put him at corner so Corby eason doesn't get burned and miss time his jump?

It clear that game was a fluke but not even Riley Nelson helps.

Oh and Green Monstah RIley did not have any more zip on his passes in fact I have never seen so many bad throws completed in my life. I am coming to grips with the fact that he just seems to get it done and he is very Tebowesque. The purists will hate him but a win is a win. However I do want to see him against better competition we saw what he did against TCU and it wasn't pretty.

[CardiacCoug]

Oh and Green Monstah RIley did not have any more zip on his passes in fact I have never seen so many bad throws completed in my life. I am coming to grips with the fact that he just seems to get it done and he is very Tebowesque. The purists will hate him but a win is a win. However I do want to see him against better competition we saw what he did against TCU and it wasn't pretty.

Yeah there was a throw into the end zone when Apo made a nice move and either throwing a little earlier or a little zip on the throw would have been a TD. Riley threw late and wobbly and 2 Hawaii DBs got there in time.

Bottom line though is that Heaps hasn't been as good as he should have been. Some of that is on the coaches, the RBs, the WRs (Jacobson), the OL. But a lot of it is on Heaps too.

[Shaka]

You are up in the night if you think the game against Utah is more respectable. Jake moved the ball very well in the first half. Is Riley effing Superman? Does he stop JJ and Juice from fumbling? Does he return kicks so Falslev doesn't fumble? Would Bronco put him at corner so Corby eason doesn't get burned and miss time his jump?

It clear that game was a fluke but not even Riley Nelson helps.

Oh and Green Monstah RIley did not have any more zip on his passes in fact I have never seen so many bad throws completed in my life. I am coming to grips with the fact that he just seems to get it done and he is very Tebowesque. The purists will hate him but a win is a win. However I do want to see him against better competition we saw what he did against TCU and it wasn't pretty.

Junkie at the time of the Utah game Jake couldn't put together a complete game. I think Riley would have been far better from a continuity standpoint which would have made for a more complete game. This would have made the outcome different. Plus his running takes pressure off those back so maybe they aren't making those turnovers.

Other than the deep balls Riley was money on most of his throws. His short and medium balls were usually put in good places.

One of the things Riley needs to do better is not throw deep when he's forced out of the pocket. Unless the receiver is wide open he simply does not have the arm to get that ball out there without DB's being able to converge. Max had the same problem. Riley should take the underneath routes in those instances. He can throw a decent deep ball if it's a designed deep play and he gets the ball off immediately after his drop. Even in this case Riley will never be a Jake but it is enough to stretch the D.

[Hsaru]

This.

I don't think we beat Utah (although I think the game would have been far more respectable) but with Riley I think there's a good shot we beat Texas.

Surfah, You need to learn how to win. You're starting to become Hsaru light which is strange because you're a much better guy and poster than that ingrate.

To address your point Riley has aspects of his game that he can improve. People said the same thing about him last year yet this year he's better. He has yet to start what would comprise a full season of games. It's very unfair to say improvement isn't possible.

Ridiculous to think Texas wouldn't make the same kind of plays on jump balls that TCU did and wouldn't punish Riley for scrambling like TCU did, they are better ine every way than TCU.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Ridiculous to think Texas wouldn't make the same kind of plays on jump balls that TCU did and wouldn't punish Riley for scrambling like TCU did, they are better ine every way than TCU.

Please. Even I wouldn't say that.

[Hsaru]

I'm guessing you were also upset when Crowton ran off Ben Olsen. Heaps is a bad quarterback. He is not accurate. Has no touch. Makes bad decisions. Locks onto receivers. Zero mobility. Is not a leader. But he does have a strong arm.

Why is losing him such a bad thing?

Jake's in a lose-lose situation with people like you and Shaka, if he goes elsewhere and has more success than Riley, Shaka will just say welp too bad he sucked when he was here. Shaka will still be ecstatic his boy got his time in the sun even when we are starting a freshman in 2013 and losing 4 games in 2012.

[Hsaru]

Please. Even I wouldn't say that.

On defense, Texas' QB situation is a dumpster fire.

[Shaka]

Jake's in a lose-lose situation with people like you and Shaka, if he goes elsewhere and has more success than Riley, Shaka will just say welp too bad he sucked when he was here. Shaka will still be ecstatic his boy got his time in the sun even when we are starting a freshman in 2013 and losing 4 games in 2012.

Listen dickwad, I've given Jake his props when deserved in addition to criticizing when appropriate. Why don't you scroll up a few messages and see what I wrote about Jake. I've also criticized Riley when it was deserved.

You have zero credibility here or on CB. You've become a joke. You simply cannot give a thoughtful analysis of either QB that reflects reality and isn't colored by bias.

Please, whatever happens with Jake, become a Ute fan and take you're idiocy over to their board.

[MarkGrace]

I am coming to grips with the fact that he just seems to get it done and he is very Tebowesque.

Yeah, as am I, but there is still a disconnect for me. As I've stated before, it's like watching Shawn Marion shoot a basketball. I've seen him make a ton of jumpshots over the years, and even with that knowledge, when I see him shoot, it's so freaking ugly and weak that I still think it can't possibly work the next time. That's pretty much exactly how I feel about watching Riley throw the football. I'm watching the games, and the results are good, but it's like I still can't reconcile in my mind exactly how that's happening and it still feels like the next time it's not going to work for him, despite the evidence and previous positive results.

[Coach McGuirk]

Riley plays to start the season, he doesn't make it out of the Texas game.

[woot]

Listen dickwad, I've given Jake his props when deserved in addition to criticizing when appropriate. Why don't you scroll up a few messages and see what I wrote about Jake. I've also criticized Riley when it was deserved.

You have zero credibility here or on CB. You've become a joke. You simply cannot give a thoughtful analysis of either QB that reflects reality and isn't colored by bias.

Please, whatever happens with Jake, become a Ute fan and take you're idiocy over to their board.

While this is harsh, it basically rings true. There are various factions on the board that keep things in perspective, but Hsaru seems just crazy right now.

I like to think that I'm an independent in all this. I mostly blame the coaches, and will blame Jake if he leaves (unless, as stated above, Bronco tells him he doesn't have a shot), and wish Riley were better. I hope Riley can stay healthy and start all next year, and I hope Jake is willing redshirt and become an elite QB in 12 and 13, after which we' ll have Hill and Mangum in the pipe. Jake leaving screws this up, and the blame will be shared around if that happens, but the one person you cannot blame in all this is Riley Nelson.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Please. Even I wouldn't say that.

I'm not so sure that Texas is better than TCU, TCU has looked very impressive since that OT loss to SMU. Even still, Texas' defense is pretty good, but David Ash and Colt McCoy are just dreadful to watch.

[Commando]

the one person you cannot blame in all this is Riley Nelson.

Seriously. Talk about an asinine premise (or a great troll). If Jake puts away Utah State like any QB worth his salt should have in the first 3.5 quarters, Bronco's hand isn't forced. Dipshit acts like Bronco is looking for a reason to not put Heaps in and keep Riley on the field. Heaps has been King of the 3 and out this year, so it is what it is...

[MarkGrace]

I don't know what he does. I hope he doesn't. But I don't know why he stays. When I think of Jake transferring because Riley Nelson is BYU's starting QB I feel sick.

At this point, I don't think there's any way we see an open competition going into next year. There may be the typical "every position is up for grabs" type comment from Bronco, but Riley will be the presumptive starter, much like Jake was going into the year. And I think he'll hold onto it, because the real competition isn't lined up in a row next year. There are enough dummies sprinkled between the good games that there's no real threat of a slide that gets him into a pickle.

So where does that put Jake and what his he thinking? Personally, I think going forward his best option is to stay here and take the redshirt. That gives us one year with Riley, and then he's got a clear shot at being the starter headed into his RS Jr. year. I also think Doman and Bronco will pour everything they have into him and he will be given every opportunity -- probably even more of an opportunity than he'd see elsewhere -- to succeed.

However, I think it's tough for a kid to think about what is going to be best going forward, and not focus on what has happened in the past. To me his decision will likely be more about what has happened, not about what could potentially happen going forward. And in his mind, it's going to be hard for him not to think he got screwed. Put yourself in his position and this is what you would be thinking: "I had to deal with a coordinator who by his own admission was struggling mightily, 3/4 of the offense was out of shape, we couldn't run the ball at all, I got pulled right when the schedule went soft and had to watch my backup go out there and run over dummies turning into a hero, and then when I got my chance again, I proved I could have been running over those dummies as well."

That's what going through his head. So even if BYU is the right place for him looking forward, his decision will still likely me made based on the past. And if he does stay here, what happens to him as a redshirt? If I'm him and considering the redshirt, I tell Bronco that if I take the redshirt then under no circumstances am I coming off the redshirt. But what are the chances Bronco will let that happen? So we project ourselves to the point where Riley gets injured again next year, and what happens with Jake? There's no way they let him keep redshirting while Lark goes out there and blows games. Apparently Doman even said yesterday that if he were to RS, he'd still be the backup because he's too good not be involved in the everyday planning. What are the chances the backup won't have to play in a Riley-led year?

If he goes elsewhere, that option is taken off the table, as a coach couldn't burn his redshirt even if he wanted to. If he can guarantee that would happen at BYU, maybe he stays. But I don't think that could be guaranteed, because Bronco has proven that he's a Jerry Sloan-style have to win every battle even if you lose the war type. He's not a Greg Popovich who's going to take a loss or two if he believes it will move his team forward in the end. Is 9-3 better than 8-4 in the grand scheme of things? No, they're both entirely forgettable and either way a season nobody will care about a year from now. As SU said and I hate to agree with, I'd rather play for one great season than a bunch of forgettable ones. But Bronco doesn't have that mentality. Though I don't entirely blame him -- football is just such a short season that it's hard to take a Popovich mentality. Anyway, my point there is the fact that if Jake stays at redshirts, it means in all likelihood he wouldn't even have a shot at two full years as a starter. I think that makes the decision tougher for him.

[Viking]

MG, reminds me of another QB: