Revenge of the Haoles - BYU vs. Hawaii 2011

[jay santos]

We'd have a veteran Nelson playing well and Heaps would come in as a RS SO. or he would have played poorly and Heaps would be given a chance to definitely beat him in the offseason after a redshirt year. Or Heaps would have been given the full support of the coaches and the players being named the full starter without this half option qb run heavy offense and then the regular offense being run by Heaps in a laughable 2 qb system to start the year that Bronco has reiterated was a huge mistake. Funny how Bronco learning from that mistake is why he said he wasn't going to play Heaps at all during Nelson's games once he was named starter or give him reps with the 1s in practice. Both of these situations seem far superior to what we got.

Forget it, nevermind.

[Hsaru]

While this is probably a good perspective to have, I think it was also true that none of the "mid-majors" were playing decent schedules back then, which isn't really true anymore. As we've watched several non-AQ schools do very well with decent schedules, and subsequently gain admission into the big boy leagues, it only highlights how BYU has gone from perhaps the premier non-AQ school in the nation to one that hasn't been able to do what several other teams have done. BYU hasn't cracked the BCS since its introduction, and doesn't seem to be on the radar of any of the big leagues anymore. In the meantime, Louisville, BSU, TCU, Utah, and Hawaii have done one or both of these, and Houston, SDSU, the service academies, and probably others are in line for spots in AQ conferences.

I'm sure there is a lot of wishful thinking involved, but it's just not nearly as fun to be a fan of a team that isn't relevant. No-name commits show up in news reports with the fans stifling yawn in response, nobody who knows anything about Xs and Os covers BYU sports at all, our rival is at least feigning disinterest in us, and now we don't even have a conference to follow. In the MWC, it seemed that several teams considered us to be their rival, which at least allowed us to be the big fish in a small pond. Now, it seems that BYU plays football with the simple goal of making money. Admittedly, it's very nice to find BYU games on TV so easily, but even the next couple years when the schedule is improved, there still isn't a lot of motivation.

I envy Utah, not because I think the AQ status of the Pac12 is likely to matter for them anytime soon, but rather because they get to play a (relatively) great and consistent schedule, they get to compete for division and conference championships, they get to strategically root for or against their conference mates even if the Utes aren't playing that week, they get to root for individual players to receive all-conference honors, they get to compete for recruits that other schools actually want, and they get to dream of future Rose Bowls. A BYU fan gets to dream of what? Hiring a coach that commands loyalty? The BoT allowing the athletic director to direct the athletics? How things stand now, BYU seems a lot more loyal to ESPN than to the fans, who all seem to wish BYU would swallow some of its pride long enough to take its seat at the adults' table.

It's fun to be the underdog sometimes, but right now it feels like the fans are tolerated at best, instead of being acknowledged as the lifeblood of the organization.

Well that turned into a rant.

I didn't like being in the MWC, but it was fun to be in a group trying to bust the big corrupt system, now we just feel irrelevant. This is how I feel 100%, I almost had more fun watching Utah games cheering for them to lose than I did playing out the string of BYU's dreadful meaningless non-conference WAC schedule, and that has never been the case. I didn't even bother to watch a lot of Utah's games in the MWC.

[Surfah]

What do you think Bronco should have done last year? Redshirted him or named him starter before the season?

That's tough. If I were the coach I likely would have started Heaps and told the team he's the guy and for everyone to get behind him. My reasoning, if the junior QB can't beat out a true frosh then I roll with youth. I'd rather develop someone who has 4 years of eligibility than have to develop a junior QB, particularly one with a skill set that doesn't fit the offensive system. Either way though I agree with what Hsaru says that making a decision one way or the other is better than what we ended up with.

The problem with Riley is that he has durability issues. So if you're Bronco you have to have a capable backup ready to go. Next year if Heaps stays and he redshirts, Bronco and Doman have to commit to not pulling that redshirt off. And I just don't see that happening.

[jay santos]

That's tough. If I were the coach I likely would have started Heaps and told the team he's the guy and for everyone to get behind him. My reasoning, if the junior QB can't beat out a true frosh then I roll with youth. I'd rather develop someone who has 4 years of eligibility than have to develop a junior QB, particularly one with a skill set that doesn't fit the offensive system. Either way though I agree with what Hsaru says that making a decision one way or the other is better than what we ended up with.

The problem with Riley is that he has durability issues. So if you're Bronco you have to have a capable backup ready to go. Next year if Heaps stays and he redshirts, Bronco and Doman have to commit to not pulling that redshirt off. And I just don't see that happening.

Do you think Heaps would be a better QB this year had he played those extra, what, 1 1/2 games he missed out on at the beginning of the season? or that he would have much more confidence now since he hadn't have gone through that humiliating experience of splitting time and then losing the job to Nelson?

I can see how someone could say Bronco did the wrong thing last fall. But I don't see how that relates to what's happening now.

[Surfah]

While this is probably a good perspective to have, I think it was also true that none of the "mid-majors" were playing decent schedules back then, which isn't really true anymore. As we've watched several non-AQ schools do very well with decent schedules, and subsequently gain admission into the big boy leagues, it only highlights how BYU has gone from perhaps the premier non-AQ school in the nation to one that hasn't been able to do what several other teams have done. BYU hasn't cracked the BCS since its introduction, and doesn't seem to be on the radar of any of the big leagues anymore. In the meantime, Louisville, BSU, TCU, Utah, and Hawaii have done one or both of these, and Houston, SDSU, the service academies, and probably others are in line for spots in AQ conferences.

I'm sure there is a lot of wishful thinking involved, but it's just not nearly as fun to be a fan of a team that isn't relevant. No-name commits show up in news reports with the fans stifling yawn in response, nobody who knows anything about Xs and Os covers BYU sports at all, our rival is at least feigning disinterest in us, and now we don't even have a conference to follow. In the MWC, it seemed that several teams considered us to be their rival, which at least allowed us to be the big fish in a small pond. Now, it seems that BYU plays football with the simple goal of making money. Admittedly, it's very nice to find BYU games on TV so easily, but even the next couple years when the schedule is improved, there still isn't a lot of motivation.

I envy Utah, not because I think the AQ status of the Pac12 is likely to matter for them anytime soon, but rather because they get to play a (relatively) great and consistent schedule, they get to compete for division and conference championships, they get to strategically root for or against their conference mates even if the Utes aren't playing that week, they get to root for individual players to receive all-conference honors, they get to compete for recruits that other schools actually want, and they get to dream of future Rose Bowls. A BYU fan gets to dream of what? Hiring a coach that commands loyalty? The BoT allowing the athletic director to direct the athletics? How things stand now, BYU seems a lot more loyal to ESPN than to the fans, who all seem to wish BYU would swallow some of its pride long enough to take its seat at the adults' table.

It's fun to be the underdog sometimes, but right now it feels like the fans are tolerated at best, instead of being acknowledged as the lifeblood of the organization.

Well that turned into a rant.

Woot this is a pretty good post and I agree with much of it. When Utes would chide Cougars about what BYU has to play for after the first loss I brushed that off as silly smack. But having endured an entire season of independence now, I'll concede that the Utes were right. We have nothing but pride to play for. And even then, how much pride can be meted out by beating on the dregs of the WAC and Big Sky conferences?

The blush is definitely off the rose of independence for me. While I loved being able to tune into ESPN/2/U to watch almost every single game, I am not sure that the exposure is worth it when our access to the big time is still the same (maybe worse since we don't even have a conference championship to build a resume with).

[Hsaru]

Do you think Heaps would be a better QB this year had he played those extra, what, 1 1/2 games he missed out on at the beginning of the season? or that he would have much more confidence now since he hadn't have gone through that humiliating experience of splitting time and then losing the job to Nelson?

I can see how someone could say Bronco did the wrong thing last fall. But I don't see how that relates to what's happening now.

You are kidding yourself if you don't think that their wasn't still remnants of the team division caused by the 2 qb system from last year, first sign of trouble for Heaps and the upperclassmen were all ready to jump ship to Riley. You can tell from comments from Ogletree that they think Riley never lost the job out right going into this year, they were not fully behind Jake whatsoever if the going got remotely tough.

[jay santos]

You are kidding yourself if you don't think that their wasn't still remnants of the team division caused by the 2 qb system from last year, first sign of trouble for Heaps and the upperclassmen were all ready to jump ship to Riley. You can tell from comments from Ogletree that they think Riley never lost the job out right going into this year, they were not fully behind Jake whatsoever if the going got remotely tough.

So what exactly are you saying? That Ogletree and other upperclassmen intentionally played poorly to get Jake to lose his job?

[Hsaru]

So what exactly are you saying? That Ogletree and other upperclassmen intentionally played poorly to get Jake to lose his job?

You don't think there is a middle ground between sabotaging a player and not being fully behind him because you still love the backup more? Every good QB talks about team unity/comraderie being important, when a lot of the players want the backup to be the starter, thats hard to come by.

[Surfah]

Do you think Heaps would be a better QB this year had he played those extra, what, 1 1/2 games he missed out on at the beginning of the season? or that he would have much more confidence now since he hadn't have gone through that humiliating experience of splitting time and then losing the job to Nelson?

I can see how someone could say Bronco did the wrong thing last fall. But I don't see how that relates to what's happening now.

I do. And I think it relates quite a bit to what has happened this year. It's not the playing time so much as Bronco definitively making Heaps the guy, his guy, and setting him up as the leader of the team. When Bronco didn't make a decision last year he allowed for a division on the team (and fanbase) to occur. Even when Heaps took over after Riley's injury and played well, it was still never his team. I think Bronco did some things to undermine Heap's ability to lead the team which continued into this season. I think this is where Jake's confidence was impacted. When you're QB1 and the coach is wanting your backup to be the rally guy/team leader what is that supposed to mean? To me it's clearly evident in the way the team has responded to Riley that this team never really supported Heaps the same way. This is why I think Jake is in a lose-lose situation and he should transfer. This team, so long as Riley is a part of it, will never be his team.

[jay santos]

You don't think there is a middle ground between sabotaging a player and not being fully behind him because you still love the backup more? Every good QB talks about team unity/comraderie being important, when a lot of the players want the backup to be the starter, thats hard to come by.

True or False: Heaps started the last 10 games of last season, was the clear starter in all the offseason, spring and fall camp, Doman and Bronco talked about him like he's the next great BYU QB, no one in the world including all the upper classmen on team had a clue that Nelson will ever be our QB again.

How can you possibly suggest that Heaps' shitty play was somehow related to the upper classmen not being fully behind him?

[jay santos]

I do. And I think it relates quite a bit to what has happened this year. It's not the playing time so much as Bronco definitively making Heaps the guy, his guy, and setting him up as the leader of the team. When Bronco didn't make a decision last year he allowed for a division on the team (and fanbase) to occur. Even when Heaps took over after Riley's injury and played well, it was still never his team. I think Bronco did some things to undermine Heap's ability to lead the team which continued into this season. I think this is where Jake's confidence was impacted. When you're QB1 and the coach is wanting your backup to be the rally guy/team leader what is that supposed to mean? To me it's clearly evident in the way the team has responded to Riley that this team never really supported Heaps the same way. This is why I think Jake is in a lose-lose situation and he should transfer. This team, so long as Riley is a part of it, will never be his team.

Come on guys. Heaps did not suck this year because of leadership. He sucked because he couldn't throw a simple out.

Disunity comes from losing. Not the other way around.

[Moliere]

Come on guys. Heaps did not suck this year because of leadership. He sucked because he couldn't throw a simple out.

Disunity comes from losing. Not the other way around.

But when he threw the out the ball went really fast.

[Shaka]

The coaches are not to be faulted with not anointing Jake as a leader before he'd ever taken a college snap.

The coaches did give Jake every opportunity to earn a leadership spot this season. They anointed him starter prior to spring ball and he started the first five games of this season before they felt they had to make a move.

Coaches do not simply crown a leader and expect everyone to go along. Leadership is earned in the offseason, practice, and finally in games. Is it possibly that Jake has some deficiencies that contributed to the team not being accepting of him? The notion that a coach can waive a magic wand and a player becomes a leader is not based in reality.

[Surfah]

Come on guys. Heaps did not suck this year because of leadership. He sucked because he couldn't throw a simple out.

Disunity comes from losing. Not the other way around.

That's not quite what I said. But whatevs. I also think disunity comes from more things than just losing. Jay there is no convincing you and I am not trying to. You asked me questions I answered them the way I see it.

I do find the way that you can so easily dismiss any culpability by Bronco and Doman in the development (or lack thereof) of all of our QBs curious.

[jay santos]

That's not quite what I said. But whatevs. I also think disunity comes from more things than just losing. Jay there is no convincing you and I am not trying to. You asked me questions I answered them the way I see it.

I do find the way that you can so easily dismiss any culpability by Bronco and Doman in the development (or lack thereof) of all of our QBs curious.

I'd be more likely to blame them for lack of recruiting and not having more options to go to when your main guy fails. I'm not a big believer on a QB coach making a QB. I think coaches for the most part develop a system where guys can succeed and recruit good prospects, and then to large degree it's up to the kid. There will be some busts and some surprises, but it will average out. I like our system, and it's proven to be successful in the past.