Drew Phillips' speed

[The_Tick]

TWD...is there anything you aren't an expert in?

[jay santos]

Hague running a 4.6? That's not what I heard. I heard the only guy faster than him on the team now was Phillips, who is clocked at 4.39. Where did you hear that number?

I didn't. I was throwing numbers out to generally show the improvement. Maybe he went from 4.6 or 4.7 to 4.4.

[taekwondave]

I didn't. I was throwing numbers out to generally show the improvement. Maybe he went from 4.6 or 4.7 to 4.4.

Yeah, that sounds more like what I heard. He was pretty fast before, but with the weight loss I guess now he's a real burner.

[taekwondave]

TWD...is there anything you aren't an expert in?

Yes. Smart ass

[old_gregg]

hague ran a 4.5 out of hs. the gap between a 4.4 and 4.5 is a different beast than a 4.9 to a 4.7, though.

[Green Monstah]

Yes. Smart ass

For example, graduating from college in a timely manner.

SNAP!

[KillerDog]

I don't know a ton of what TaekwandoDave is talking about with respect to Omer and Drew etc. I do know a little about sprinting and how to train to run fast. He's partially right about the muscle groups (as far as I know). When running from a track start, the early portion of the run is primarily quads and calves for drive and hip-flexor for turnover. There is a transition in body lean and in leg drive between 50 and 60 meters where world class athletes "hit their stride" and are at top speed. During this transition period, the runner increasingly uses his hamstring instead of his quad to drive him forward. Calf is still heavily used and so is hip-flexor. If Omer is over-training the quad and ignoring the hammy, his players will not be as fast when running "upright." Since most football players run in an upright position, they would be slower than otherwise. Additionally, you will see large numbers of hamstring injuries as they take a few explosive quad driven steps and then attempt to immediately propel themselves with their hammies that aren't ready for the load. I recall hammy injuries in the past but I haven't seen a rash of them recently so maybe the balance is better.

On the subject of speed training. If you are training to run the 40 and your trainer is focusing on your hammies, he is wasting your time. You would do better to improve starting form, body lean, arm speed, and hip flexor strength than wasting time on hammies. A good track coach wouldn't let his kids fully upright over 40 meters. There would be some marginal benefit in hammy strength increasing over the duration of the 40 meter run but you wouldn't even hit top speed at 40 meters if properly coached.

BTW, did you know Leonard Myles-Mills holds the Africa record for 60 meters?

[The_Tick]

Yes. Smart ass

I will sit by patiently and wait to see it to believe it.

[Jeff Lebowski]

If you think a 5'10" white kid who only played football in the eighth and ninth grade who now runs a 4.45 is going to make it in the combine, you need to think again. Speed is a cherry on top of the sunday that NFL scouts are looking for. I've got the cherry, but I lack PLENTY of ice cream and hot fudge.

Uhh... Pretty sure he was kidding about the NFL thing. It's just a way of saying that he thinks you are FOS.

[shoganai]

This is one of the best threads I've seen all month.

[shoganai]

On a side note, I believe that the 40-yard dash constitutes one of the most overrated metrics in football.

There is precious correlation to what a player does mechanically in a 40-yard sprint and anything that is done on a football field.

Strap on the heavy helmet and pads and actually try to run a football play, and your ability to burn by people is largely related to stride length (and your strength in powering through attempted tackles). The taller guy will almost always outrun the shorter guy, regardless of who supposedly has the fastest 40 time.

Moreover, the ability to simply be elusive and leave guys behind you is based primarily on precision of movement and quickness in changing direction. Remember, Jerry Rice was not an especially fast receiver, and Reno Mahe stuck around the league for years, simply because he was shifty.

[taekwondave]

For example, graduating from college in a timely manner.

SNAP!

Graduatin, like marriage, is for quitters

[taekwondave]

I don't know a ton of what TaekwandoDave is talking about with respect to Omer and Drew etc. I do know a little about sprinting and how to train to run fast. He's partially right about the muscle groups (as far as I know). When running from a track start, the early portion of the run is primarily quads and calves for drive and hip-flexor for turnover. There is a transition in body lean and in leg drive between 50 and 60 meters where world class athletes "hit their stride" and are at top speed. During this transition period, the runner increasingly uses his hamstring instead of his quad to drive him forward. Calf is still heavily used and so is hip-flexor. If Omer is over-training the quad and ignoring the hammy, his players will not be as fast when running "upright." Since most football players run in an upright position, they would be slower than otherwise. Additionally, you will see large numbers of hamstring injuries as they take a few explosive quad driven steps and then attempt to immediately propel themselves with their hammies that aren't ready for the load. I recall hammy injuries in the past but I haven't seen a rash of them recently so maybe the balance is better.

On the subject of speed training. If you are training to run the 40 and your trainer is focusing on your hammies, he is wasting your time. You would do better to improve starting form, body lean, arm speed, and hip flexor strength than wasting time on hammies. A good track coach wouldn't let his kids fully upright over 40 meters. There would be some marginal benefit in hammy strength increasing over the duration of the 40 meter run but you wouldn't even hit top speed at 40 meters if properly coached.

BTW, did you know Leonard Myles-Mills holds the Africa record for 60 meters?

Well as long as we both agree that the hip flexor is of great importance, I won't argue any further. I also love that you brought up arm speed. A huge part of the speed training course that I wrote deals with that. For every action in sprinting you need to create an opposite reaction. As you strengthen your hip flexors, if you don't strengthen the shoulders that throw the arms forward simultaneously, you're not tuning your engine right. Good comments. But I maintain the hammies are a little more important that you're giving them credit for. Either that or my form needs work

[LiveCoug]

Dear taekwondave,

You did not run a 4.39 40. Nor did you average 4.45 in multiple 40's.

Love,

LiveCoug

[taekwondave]

Uhh... Pretty sure he was kidding about the NFL thing. It's just a way of saying that he thinks you are FOS.

I got the FOS part loud and clear, Jeff. But you never can be too sure. There are plenty of people out there who think that speed alone will make you a great football player. Didn't Crowton throw some track star with butterfingers at wide receiver one year? Rod Wilkerson, I think it was? I remember being wowed by his speed, only to hear myself pull the Homer Simpson "doh!!" about a half a million times that season. I'm a big proponent of speed, but I'm also a big proponent of learning how to catch and run crisp routes.