Drew Phillips' speed

[old_gregg]

if i could run a 40 in 7 seconds i would be pretty excited.

[Green Monstah]

If you think a 5'10" white kid who only played football in the eighth and ninth grade who now runs a 4.45 is going to make it in the combine, you need to think again. Speed is a cherry on top of the sunday that NFL scouts are looking for. I've got the cherry, but I lack PLENTY of ice cream and hot fudge.

Something tells me you'd fail the character/honesty interviews as well!

[taekwondave]

Something tells me you'd fail the character/honesty interviews as well!

I don't need to defend my speed to any of you. You don't know me personally so you're going to resist this information. The thread isn't about me anyways. It's about Drew Phillips agreeing with me that Omer's training hurts your speed and that to keep his he is still doing the exercises he learned at his speed camps growing up.

But if any of you wanna race me sometime, just name the time and place

[Art Vandelay]

But if any of you wanna race me sometime, just name the time and place

How bout the Red Iguana?

[Green Monstah]

I don't need to defend my speed to any of you. You don't know me personally so you're going to resist this information. The thread isn't about me anyways. It's about Drew Phillips agreeing with me that Omer's training hurts your speed and that to keep his he is still doing the exercises he learned at his speed camps growing up.

But if any of you wanna race me sometime, just name the time and place

I will not race you, but would you like to try out for my ultimate frisbee team?

[jay santos]

Hip flexors and hamstrings.

So I take it BYU athletes never do squats, lunges, or plyo's?

[old_gregg]

How bout the Red Iguana?

as long as you will let him see your visa platinum card

[taekwondave]

(I reject your story of going from a 5.0 to a 4.39 without gaining muscle or decreasing body fat, but we can discuss that separately).

Here's the problem I find with people on this matter: People have heard from sprinters and sprinting coaches that a change from .1 to .2 seconds on your forty or hundred meter sprint is a HUGE leap. And that's true. But what people don't get is that it's a huge leap FOR SPRINTERS. That WOULDN'T be a huge leap for someone who hasn't done any training of that sort before and suddenly starts training that way.

It's like body fat %. If you are a big fat guy on the television show "the biggest loser" you are dropping % points all the time. People on that show go from 70% body fat to 8% body fat in like 120 days or something.

That's a HUGE change. For someone who only has 15% body fat to begin with that sounds like an impossible number. And it is. There is obviously a limit to how much fat you can lose and there is likewise a limit to how fast you can run. An elite runner would be THRILLED to shave just .1 seconds off his forty time. THRILLED!!! But if I were to take my GIRLFRIEND out right now, even though she is in GREAT shape body fat-wise, and start her on speed training with me, if she only shaved off .1 seconds her first MONTH I would consider myself a complete and utter failure as a coach. I KNOW I could shave at LEAST .4 off her time if she was down for it, because she's NEVER tried sprinting, or anything like it, before.

That was kind of how I was. I had never trained for running. When I finally did the results were initially dramatic (just like those fat guys first few weeks on the biggest loser). But the closer you get to your maximum potential, the harder it is to keep making progress. That's only logical. (After I hit 4.5 for the first time it was a little like hitting a wall. It took a lot of work to just get to 4.45. A LOT more work than it took to move the previous .05 seconds, that's for sure.)

The problem is that when I tell my story of when I became a fast sprinter, people don't grasp that idea and immediately disbelieve it. Well...oh well. Nothing I can really do about it.

Anyway, like I said, I spoke to Drew, and he agree with my assessment of Omer.

[taekwondave]

So I take it BYU athletes never do squats, lunges, or plyo's?

Yes. Naturally. And the prime muscles worked in those exercises are the quads and gluts.

For the hip flexor you need a completely different workout because it is barely effected by the workouts you just named. In case you don't know, the hit flexor is primarily responsible for lifting the knee straight out in front of you. The exercises you just listed involve the straightening of the knee and hip, a related motion but clearly not the same. A good speed training program will apply resistance to the motion I mentioned, as well as focus on the hamstring, since these are the primary movements in sprinting; the lifting of the knee and the squeezing of the hamstring.

[jay santos]

Here's the problem I find with people on this matter: People have heard from sprinters and sprinting coaches that a change from .1 to .2 seconds on your forty or hundred meter sprint is a HUGE leap. And that's true. But what people don't get is that it's a huge leap FOR SPRINTERS. That WOULDN'T be a huge leap for someone who hasn't done any training of that sort before and suddenly starts training that way.

It's like body fat %. If you are a big fat guy on the television show "the biggest loser" you are dropping % points all the time. People on that show go from 70% body fat to 8% body fat in like 120 days or something.

That's a HUGE change. For someone who only has 15% body fat to begin with that sounds like an impossible number. And it is. There is obviously a limit to how much fat you can lose and there is likewise a limit to how fast you can run. An elite runner would be THRILLED to shave just .1 seconds off his forty time. THRILLED!!! But if I were to take my GIRLFRIEND out right now, even though she is in GREAT shape body fat-wise, and start her on speed training with me, if she only shaved off .1 seconds her first MONTH I would consider myself a complete and utter failure as a coach. I KNOW I could shave at LEAST .4 off her time if she was down for it, because she's NEVER tried sprinting, or anything like it, before.

That was kind of how I was. I had never trained for running. When I finally did the results were initially dramatic (just like those fat guys first few weeks on the biggest loser). But the closer you get to your maximum potential, the harder it is to keep making progress. That's only logical. (After I hit 4.5 for the first time it was a little like hitting a wall. It took a lot of work to just get to 4.45. A LOT more work than it took to move the previous .05 seconds, that's for sure.)

The problem is that when I tell my story of when I became a fast sprinter, people don't grasp that idea and immediately disbelieve it. Well...oh well. Nothing I can really do about it.

Anyway, like I said, I spoke to Drew, and he agree with my assessment of Omer.

I guess it's possible. 5.0 is pretty slow. 4.39 would make you state champ in Utah in the 100 meters. I would expect a change like that would only occur along with a significant body transformation. For example I think Hague has cut his 40 time in the range of 4.8 to the range of 4.6 by dropping 20-30 lbs of fat.

[taekwondave]

I will not race you, but would you like to try out for my ultimate frisbee team?

Maybe.

[jay santos]

Yes. Naturally. And the prime muscles worked in those exercises are the quads and gluts.

For the hip flexor you need a completely different workout because it is barely effected by the workouts you just named. In case you don't know, the hit flexor is primarily responsible for lifting the knee straight out in front of you. The exercises you just listed involve the straightening of the knee and hip, a related motion but clearly not the same. A good speed training program will apply resistance to the motion I mentioned, as well as focus on the hamstring, since these are the primary movements in sprinting; the lifting of the knee and the squeezing of the hamstring.

So squats, lunges, plyo's make people slower. But your workout makes people faster? Mind sharing your workout?

[taekwondave]

I guess it's possible. 5.0 is pretty slow. 4.39 would make you state champ in Utah in the 100 meters. I would expect a change like that would only occur along with a significant body transformation. For example I think Hague has cut his 40 time in the range of 4.8 to the range of 4.6 by dropping 20-30 lbs of fat.

Here's another thing that's important: Track and football measure your forty differently. A 4.4 track time is faster than a 4.4 football time. The reason is that in football you start the clock when the player lifts his front hand off the ground to begin his running motion. In track the runner doesn't even start until AFTER he's heard the sound of the bell or gun, which signifies the starting of the clock.

So I may run a 4.45 football forty, but that doesn't mean I run a 4.45 track forty.

[taekwondave]

So squats, lunges, plyo's make people slower. But your workout makes people faster? Mind sharing your workout?

They would probably make an elite sprinter slower, yes. Drew said to me, "I don't do his squats" regarding Omer's workouts. He clearly understands this.

Now, if you never trained before and you suddenly got to high school and your coach put you on squats and you got faster, this might confuse you, but again, it's probably because any training is better than no training. But when you get to the big boy speeds, you need to be careful with workouts like that because they can really limit you, yes.

I can give you my workouts, sure. You could also go to any of the speed training facilities in Utah and see what they're doing. Several ex BYU athletes have gone there to prepare for the Combine and have shave tons of time off their forties.

It's a pretty well known thing around here that Omer has this little weakness. I thought it was known so well in fact that I didn't bother giving background as to why I was so happy Phillips wasn't blindly following him like others have. I figured you guys would know what I was talking about.

[taekwondave]

I guess it's possible. 5.0 is pretty slow. 4.39 would make you state champ in Utah in the 100 meters. I would expect a change like that would only occur along with a significant body transformation. For example I think Hague has cut his 40 time in the range of 4.8 to the range of 4.6 by dropping 20-30 lbs of fat.

Hague running a 4.6? That's not what I heard. I heard the only guy faster than him on the team now was Phillips, who is clocked at 4.39. Where did you hear that number?