Deadspin takes on the Honor Code

[jay santos]

Exactly how black is Davies? Kid was raised in lily livered Provo in a white household.

Ironic that we keep labeling him black strictly because of his skin color and no other reason.

Davies really is an exception to the typical race factor with the Honor Code. Davies is an insider. What I consider the racist aspect of the Honor Code application is the outsider to the white Mormon Provo culture.

[All-American]

Davies really is an exception to the typical race factor with the Honor Code. Davies is an insider. What I consider the racist aspect of the Honor Code application is the outsider to the white Mormon Provo culture.

So if the problem falls especially heavily on African-Americans because they're not typically members of the church, is that really a problem of race, or of religion?

If we're not doing enough to accommodate students of other faiths, then that's a problem to be sure, but it's not the same problem and it won't have the same solution.

[jay santos]

So if the problem falls especially heavily on African-Americans because they're not typically members of the church, is that really a problem of race, or of religion?

If we're not doing enough to accommodate students of other faiths, then that's a problem to be sure, but it's not the same problem and it won't have the same solution.

Sure.

If calling it race gets your panties twisted then lets call it a problem related to the differences o religion, status as a high profile athlete, recognizability at an off campus party, cultural background, etc. But that's a lot longer to type and it doesn't change the meaning to me. In fact you could redefine every race issue by narrowing down the other differences between two groups of people and pat yourself on the back by never having an issue with race.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I would love to see something spur some HC reform. It's a shame that this article was so poorly written. They could have hit it out of the park.

[Solon]

I would love to see something spur some HC reform. It's a shame that this article was so poorly written. They could have hit it out of the park.

Race questions aside, the article suggests an ugly culture of snooping and snitching.

(I'm thinking of the Kessman-cappucino story.)

[All-American]

Sure.

If calling it race gets your panties twisted then lets call it a problem related to the differences o religion, status as a high profile athlete, recognizability at an off campus party, cultural background, etc. But that's a lot longer to type and it doesn't change the meaning to me. In fact you could redefine every race issue by narrowing down the other differences between two groups of people and pat yourself on the back by never having an issue with race.

It's not a matter of twisting panties. It's a matter of addressing the problem. Sometimes you treat a fever with bed rest, and sometimes you treat a fever by cutting out the appendix. The underlying cause matters.

[Goatnapper'96]

I would love to see something spur some HC reform. It's a shame that this article was so poorly written. They could have hit it out of the park.

I don't get why it was done so poorly. The guy has a PHD, I would think that he knew he sacrificed any chance to influence the issue in order to put forth such a hatchett job.

[YOhio]

Race questions aside, the article suggests an ugly culture of snooping and snitching.

(I'm thinking of the Kessman-cappucino story.)

By all accounts but Steve Kessman, the story is false.

[All-American]

By all accounts but Steve Kessman, the story is false.

Sometimes noise matters more than truth. Which probably goes to Lebowski's point.

[Solon]

By all accounts but Steve Kessman, the story is false.

Is Steve the father? That sounds like the kind of story a kid might tell his dad if he got kicked out of school.

I wouldn't know either way but, whether or not it's a reality, the perception of such a culture (among recruits, for instance) would be a problem, IMO.

[myboynoah]

Is Steve the father? That sounds like the kind of story a kid might tell his dad if he got kicked out of school.

I wouldn't know either way but, whether or not it's a reality, the perception of such a culture (among recruits, for instance) would be a problem, IMO.

Read some of the stories. For some, BYU lowered the boom on them because they didn't become Mormons.

[Goatnapper'96]

Race questions aside, the article suggests an ugly culture of snooping and snitching.

(I'm thinking of the Kessman-cappucino story.)

Kessman biggest issue at BYU was illegally selling players family tickets on E-Bay. The cappucino story was a lie and you will note that Kessman's father is frequently listed as a source on the page showing all the HC violations.

The HC has a lot of issues wrt snitching and snooping, IMO, but it wasn't this article that leads me to that conclusion.

[LiveCoug]

By all accounts but Steve Kessman, the story is false.

Oh, I'm quite certain the coffee story is 100% true, in that Ryan got busted for drinking coffee. That said, ain't no way that is the only reason he got kicked out of school. No way. No how.

[jay santos]

It's not a matter of twisting panties. It's a matter of addressing the problem. Sometimes you treat a fever with bed rest, and sometimes you treat a fever by cutting out the appendix. The underlying cause matters.

If a racism issue is a malicious one, ie, you're black and I don't like you and I'm going to get you, then the treatment is different.

If a racism issue is unintentional, ie, this works for me and my people sorry if it doesn't work for you black people, I didn't think of you when I made up the policy, then the treatment is the same.

[YOhio]

Oh, I'm quite certain the coffee story is 100% true, in that Ryan got busted for drinking coffee. That said, ain't no way that is the only reason he got kicked out of school. No way. No how.

That's the first time I've heard it confirmed as a contributing factor to his departure. No matter how minor of a factor, it really bothers me that the HC office would consider it.