A terrible realization about BYU

[old_gregg]

my bitter sportswriter friend,

is top ute dirk facer? that would explain the shitty writing and hackery

[creekster]

is top ute dirk facer? that would explain the shitty writing and hackery

no idea. I dont even know if he realy is one or not, to be honest. TU, can you confimr?

[LA Ute]

I think its clear that we wouldn't be going anywhere if Utah were still in the MWC. But I don't think the potential move to independence has anything to do with an attempt to one-up the Utes or even just keep from losing ground .

Fixed it to something that I can agree with with a straight face. To say that Utah will not have a recruiting edge with BYU in the MWC and Utah in the PAC12 is just nuts, IMO. As an independent BYU at least has an argument that they are still something special (beyond Church sponsorship). That's why I think it is a sensible idea.

[Top Ute]

If some time = the last 4.5 years, then I agree.

I'd say from 1993 onward, the difference between the two teams is very fine in most years. I'd give the following years to BYU:

1993
1996
1998
2000
2001
2006
2007
2009

I'd give the following years to Utah:
1994
1995
1997
1999
2002
2003
2004
2005
2008

[falafel]

Fixed it to something that I can agree with with a straight face.

The point is that BYU's potential independence has nothing to do with trying to maintain its relevance by measuring against Utah.

[falafel]

I'd say from 1993 onward, the difference between the two teams is very fine in most years. I'd give the following years to BYU:

1993
1996
1998
2000
2001
2006
2007
2009

I'd give the following years to Utah:
1994
1995
1997
1999
2002
2003
2004
2005
2008

So.... you're backing off your previous superiority comments then?

[Top Ute]

no idea. I dont even know if he realy is one or not, to be honest. TU, can you confimr?

I'm in another aspect of media, away from reporting, and haven't plied my trade in anything close to resembling full-time status in the state of Utah since I was an undergrad at the U. -- over 15 years ago.

Years ago, ex-Ute was convinced I was Dave Fox. So the Facer comparisons are good for a chuckle.

[Top Ute]

So.... you're backing off your previous superiority comments then?

The words I used were "at or above." I also said most years you really have to split hairs (the outcome of the rivalry game is often the determining factor) to determine which program had the better year.

The idea that BYU was heads-and-shoulders above Utah into the late 1990s and early 2000s is the kind of mindset that's gotten BYU brass into the pickle it's in today. It's just not there.

[jay santos]

A couple of thoughts:

(1) I think it is clear Utah leaving the MWC has precipitated much of BYU's current movement.

(2) I think it is equally clear that the reason is not what Utah fans, as a population, believe.

This is not about BYU feeling like they have to keep up. This is about the tie that kept BYU in the MWC being severed. BYU and Utah have voted as a block and worked as a team for years. Plans were in place for BYU and Utah to continue to work together as a team. Those plans were disrupted by Utah going to the Pac-10. Now that the tie to the MWC is severed, BYU has had to start looking for their own best interest without concern for anyone else and that has resulted in the current exploration of independence and the continued discussions with the Big XII. This isn't about BYU jealousy or desire to play catchup. Truthfully, an independent BYU will make more profit over the next 5 years than a Pac-12 Utah. This is about BYU no longer feeling tied to the MWC and its poor payouts. The MWC has been an anchor around the necks of BYU, Utah, and TCU because the bottom tier schools don't care to make any effort.

Agree, except the incremental revenue Utah's planning on getting with the move to the Pac is in the $20M range and the incremental revenue BYU will get going indy is probably $5M with $10M at the extreme high range.

[falafel]

The words I used were "at or above." I also said most years you really have to split hairs (the outcome of the rivalry game is often the determining factor) to determine which program had the better year.

The idea that BYU was heads-and-shoulders above Utah into the late 1990s and early 2000s is the kind of mindset that's gotten BYU brass into the pickle it's in today. It's just not there.

Seems like a strange thing to gloat about - "we're as good as you, maybe even slightly better! So suck it!"

Either way, if you think the attitude driving this whole independence mess is that BYU is head-and-shoulders above Utah, you should probably take another look around. Certain fans might hold on to that sentiment, but certainly BYU's administration/coaches do not.

[EuropeanFootballMale]

Agree, except the incremental revenue Utah's planning on getting with the move to the Pac is in the $20M range and the incremental revenue BYU will get going indy is probably $5M with $10M at the extreme high range.

BYU won't make as much money as Utah, but if BYU could add $10 million a year then I'm not sure it matters that much. The difference between 1.5 and 10 is hugantuous. The difference between 10 and 20 isn't nearly as important. Once you reach a cetain $ threshold (enough money to have good facilities, travel well etc) I'm not sure the extra money does that much. Exposure does. Recruits want to play on TV against teams they know. If BYU can pull in 10-12 a year, shcedule some decent teams and play on ESPN they will be more than fine.

[Flystripper]

BYU won't make as much money as Utah, but if BYU could add $10 million a year then I'm not sure it matters that much. The difference between 1.5 and 10 is hugantuous. The difference between 10 and 20 isn't nearly as important. Once you reach a cetain $ threshold (enough money to have good facilities, travel well etc) I'm not sure the extra money does that much. Exposure does. Recruits want to play on TV against teams they know. If BYU can pull in 10-12 a year, shcedule some decent teams and play on ESPN they will be more than fine.

in football

[Top Ute]

Seems like a strange thing to gloat about - "we're as good as you, maybe even slightly better! So suck it!"

Either way, if you think the attitude driving this whole independence mess is that BYU is head-and-shoulders above Utah, you should probably take another look around. Certain fans might hold on to that sentiment, but certainly BYU's administration/coaches do not.

Eight years of posting on these boards, and the majority of BYU fans, both fair-minded and imbecilic, haven't caught on that those are the fans in the pinata at which I'm swinging.

[EuropeanFootballMale]

in football

No question. Going independent now probably hoses the hell out of all the other sports.

[LA Ute]

The point is that BYU's potential independence has nothing to do with trying to maintain its relevance by measuring against Utah.

I agree, mostly -- it seems that BYU's desire to go indy is based mainly on a desire for more national exposure. But to say it "has nothing to do" with Utah seems a bit of a stretch.