Remembering Scott Norberg

[byu71]

I agree K-Dog is casting a big blanket, but it's a healthy mindset for society to be wary of police and their excesses and in their laws and policies err on the side of measures that curb and punish such excesses. There's a reason we call places like Stalin's USSR or today's North Korea a "police state." It seems to me Arizona is a very F-ed up place.

Any group, whether it be lawyers, investment advisors, accountants, CEO's, school teachers, et. al. have their bad apples.

I don't fear the police state coming from the police. I fear the police state coming from the politicians. I fear such a state coming from the so called "progressive" thinkers as much as I do the conservatives.

One nice thing about this Country so far is you have the freedom to move. If States like Ariz. and Utah are to repressive, find a nice progressive state like California or Washington to live in.

[Donuthole]

It depends on the jurisdiction (I'm not sure with AZ), but I've read cases where the decedent's survivors were actually awarded damages for the decendent's pain and suffering in wrongful death suits. Furthermore, the legal fees alone would likely be in the millions as well. Cost-benefit analysis leads to a settlement.

I let this slide the first time, but you keep coming back to it. Even if the state hired expensive civil counsel to defend the matter, as opposed to using the AG's office, the fees probably wouldn't exceed $300-400k. Not nearly enough of an outlay to justify a settlement for 9 million. But then, I don't think you really believe what you're saying, so I'm not sure why I'm taking the time to respond.

[creekster]

Your comment about $9 million being a drop in the bucket is laughable. It was the largest wrongful death settlement in AZ history up to that point. As SU pointed out, a majority of the damages in a wrongful death suit are economically based (as in, what would my husband have earned for our family during the remainder of his life had he not died). Given Norberg's status as a perpetual drug user, I highly doubt the case would have yielded much in the way of economic damages.

That leaves punitive damages and those are only awarded in extreme, heinous cases. And Arizona, if anything, is likely a conservative jurisdiction in this regard. $9 million is most definitely not a drop in the bucket. The insurance company knew they had a shitstorm coming their way and it was going to be worse given the circumstances of the case.

Are punitives covered in Arizona?

[KillerDog]

My kids a cop. Those of you who say they are cut from the same cloth as the bad guys can go F yourselves and I am not kidding!!!

No offense intended to your family or your kid. My experiences have colored my opinion and I have yet to be disabused of that notion in the subsequent 14 years.

[KillerDog]

Are punitives covered in Arizona?

I will now return to my regular dispassionate self.

The settlement amount surprises me. I am not sure what to think about the settlement amount. Most insurance policies won't cover intentional torts and therefore don't trigger punitives. I also would expect this to be considered an intentional tort and therefore excluded from insurance coverage in general. What am I missing about that settlement?

Further, this total is incredibly large for a wrongful death suit. There are charts and tables that tell the value of a person's life. At his age and with his addictions, his ability to earn money was very low. Thus, a $9mm dollar settlement seems off the reservation.

[byu71]

No offense intended to your family or your kid. My experiences have colored my opinion and I have yet to be disabused of that notion in the subsequent 14 years.

You are too smart a guy to go around making such assinine blanket statements. I am pissed off at a couple of attorney's I had some experience with. I know enough though not to be so pissed that I make blanket statements, like they are cut from the same mold as criminals. I have a good time teasing them, but would never make such a stupid statement.

Like I said, I could maybe expect some non high school grad who has been in and out of jail his whole life making some statement like that, but not you.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I will now return to my regular dispassionate self.

The settlement amount surprises me. I am not sure what to think about the settlement amount. Most insurance policies won't cover intentional torts and therefore don't trigger punitives. I also would expect this to be considered an intentional tort and therefore excluded from insurance coverage in general. What am I missing about that settlement?

Further, this total is incredibly large for a wrongful death suit. There are charts and tables that tell the value of a person's life. At his age and with his addictions, his ability to earn money was very low. Thus, a $9mm dollar settlement seems off the reservation.

A newspaper story said all but something like $1 million was covered by insurance.

[SeattleUte]

Are punitives covered in Arizona?

The advantage of a settlement is it doesn't raise that issue.

[PolyCougar]

No, I didn't. I'm not saying "he deserved death." What I'm saying is that there are certain people who are better off passing from this life than staying here and suffering.

Lest you think I'm completely nuts, I feel this very way about my father. His life has been 65 years of hell, and sometimes I just wish he could find his way out and rest (and he's my very best friend).

Wow man, your opening yourself up for some fire. I see your point, but nobody likes hearing death is a better option. I really relate to his story pretty personally, recovering from my own addiction and keeping a keen eye on my sobriety date. I pray nobody thought I'd be better off dead, even as I also chucked my career down the toilet. Changing a spiraling life makes a great story, and it seems he wanted it. Maybe he'd get his own Court McGee kind of story http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=11624831

There's always a chance for a change. I think the way the article is written, and how it portrays his desire to be different in the future, it really lays out a guy that knew what he wanted to be... he was asking for a blessing for heavens sakes, before being arrested. What pisses me off about the whole thing is seeing authority that I respect, behaving so horrifically. Whether, he fought back or not, that is not how anybody should act... and this is coming from a Tongan thats been through plenty of fights. I've spent time with the Salt Lake Metro Gang unit, and am surprised how much abuse they take, while keeping a calm demeanor. That's just a shame down there.

[SeattleUte]

Are punitives covered in Arizona?

A smart lawyer for the State would write to the carrier: "We're totally dead meat in this case. $9 million is a good deal. The jury will go crazy and will award more than $9 million for pain and suffering alone. The punitives will be $100 million. See Rodney King. And if you don't take this deal and let that happen to us we'll sue you for all of it for bad faith letting this settlement opportnity pass."

Pressuring the carrier into funding all of this would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Of course none of this would come out because as privileged communications it's exempt under the sunshiine laws. But it's not hard to guess what happened.

[creekster]

The advantage of a settlement is it doesn't raise that issue.

Not really. I don't know AZ law at all and I didn't read the article. In CA, however, punitives are simply not covered. It doesn't matter the nature of the underlying tort. They are also not often included in settlement value from the carrier's perspective, although they can make it more likely that a carrier will settle at limits, if possible, to avoid the exposure. (I am also assuming the carrier hasnt screwed up the handling of the file somehow.)

I also don't think it is common for counties to have a lot of insurance for police actions. Maybe some high excess, but very rare for any primary policy. CMBF's comment that all but 1 million was paid by insurance sounds like maybe an excess policy with 1 million SIR, or perhaps a primary with 1 Million SIR, something like that. It would not be typical, however. I tend to think we may not really know what factors went in to this settlement.

As you have pointed out, 9 million is a good sized wrongful death suit but not completely outrageous. Did he have kids? Although a jury is usually not allowed to award pain and suffering for wrongful death claims, they can award damagers for loss of care, comfort and support. This can be both financial support and emotional support. Juries will sometimes use this avenue to account for pain and suffering when there are small children involved, awarding huge sums for the loss of comfort and care of a parent, even if the parent is a deadbeat.

[creekster]

A smart lawyer for the State would write to the carrier: "We're totally dead meat in this case. $9 million is a good deal. The jury will go crazy and will award more than $9 million for pain and suffering alone. The punitives will be $100 million. See Rodney King. And if you don't take this deal and let that happen to us we'll sue you for all of it for bad faith letting this settlement opportnity pass."

Pressuring the carrier into funding all of this would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Of course none of this would come out because as privileged communications it's exempt under the sunshiine laws. But it's not hard to guess what happened.

I responded to some of this in my other post. I will add that a smart carrier would have anticipated this and set up the file to meet its duties to the insured without putting itself in the position of having no choice but to buckle to this sort of demand. You are finding it so easy to read between the lines because you are adding many lines. I don't think we know enough to say what happened, although that has never stopped us before.

[SeattleUte]

I responded to some of this in my other post. I will add that a smart carrier would have anticipated this and set up the file to meet its duties to the insured without putting itself in the position of having no choice but to buckle to this sort of demand. You are finding it so easy to read between the lines because you are adding many lines. I don't think we know enough to say what happened, although that has never stopped us before.

He may have had kids. But it's still a function of how much he stood to earn over the next 25 years. That's the heart of it.

Like CMBF said, there are charts that indicate a reasonable value for wrongful death cases with $x per annum earning potential. Go ahead and do the math. $9 million for a wrongful death 11 years ago is way high. Remember, this was a settlement, a compromise.

This was within the zone where even if the terrible facts of intentional killing drove the settlement a decent lawyer could make the carrier pay for the whole thing. In a settlement there is no punitive damages award.

[Green Monstah]

I let this slide the first time, but you keep coming back to it. Even if the state hired expensive civil counsel to defend the matter, as opposed to using the AG's office, the fees probably wouldn't exceed $300-400k. Not nearly enough of an outlay to justify a settlement for 9 million. But then, I don't think you really believe what you're saying, so I'm not sure why I'm taking the time to respond.

300-400?? Are you serious?

No way. Expert testimony, litigation costs, top-notch attorney's fees? Bare minimum $5MM.

[Green Monstah]

Wow man, your opening yourself up for some fire. I see your point, but nobody likes hearing death is a better option. I really relate to his story pretty personally, recovering from my own addiction and keeping a keen eye on my sobriety date. I pray nobody thought I'd be better off dead, even as I also chucked my career down the toilet. Changing a spiraling life makes a great story, and it seems he wanted it. Maybe he'd get his own Court McGee kind of story http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=11624831

There's always a chance for a change. I think the way the article is written, and how it portrays his desire to be different in the future, it really lays out a guy that knew what he wanted to be... he was asking for a blessing for heavens sakes, before being arrested. What pisses me off about the whole thing is seeing authority that I respect, behaving so horrifically. Whether, he fought back or not, that is not how anybody should act... and this is coming from a Tongan thats been through plenty of fights. I've spent time with the Salt Lake Metro Gang unit, and am surprised how much abuse they take, while keeping a calm demeanor. That's just a shame down there.

Good points, all.