Remembering Scott Norberg

[SeattleUte]

Huh? I am not. No way the case costs 5 million. No way at all.

I think there are misstatements of the law in wrongful death cases and I think the assumptions being made about an insurer's behavior in this thread or purely speculative without more info. I am even a bit skeptical that there WAS nay insurance involved. On balance, however, I have no dog in this fight.

(You are getting too excited about the nature of the damages here. it is not purely lost wages etc. Note this means I am agreeing with you. Consider that before you argue about some sort of chart for the value of wrongful death)

Creek, Arizona allows coverage for punitive damages.

http://www.mcandl.com/puni_states.html

It took me 1 minute to find this. I am also aware that if the state allows coverage of punitive damages, the policy will cover it most of the time. Surely Arizona would have bought coverage for police actions that included this coverage, even if they paid a hefty premium.

Now who has been misstating the law?

Finally, news reports said all but $1 million was covered by insurance, as someone noted.

[creekster]

Well...we just took a case all the way to the TX Supreme Court for a wrongful death suit (granted, defendent was a multinational company with extremely deep pockets) and we billed far, far north of $5MM...granted, we handled the trial and the appeal to both the Appellate and Supreme Courts. But, I'm willing to bet we billed north of $10MM during the trial alone.

Are you saying on the plaintiff's side you billed more than 5 million? Was this time actually invoiced to and paid by clients or was this time on records kept for internal accounting on a contingent fee matter?

[byu71]

Your right, it is fun to watch lawyers blow smoke up each others skirts.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Well...we just took a case all the way to the TX Supreme Court for a wrongful death suit (granted, defendent was a multinational company with extremely deep pockets) and we billed far, far north of $5MM...granted, we handled the trial and the appeal to both the Appellate and Supreme Courts. But, I'm willing to bet we billed north of $10MM during the trial alone.

Was this guy your medical expert?

[Donuthole]

Well...we just took a case all the way to the TX Supreme Court for a wrongful death suit (granted, defendent was a multinational company with extremely deep pockets) and we billed far, far north of $5MM...granted, we handled the trial and the appeal to both the Appellate and Supreme Courts. But, I'm willing to bet we billed north of $10MM during the trial alone.

How long was the trial? If you had 5 attorneys billing at 500/hr each for 12 hours a day, you'd be spending 30k/day at trial. So unless this wrongful death trial lasted 333 days, I'm guessing you were south of 10 million. Just a haphazard guess, though.

[creekster]

Creek, Arizona allows coverage for punitive damages.

http://www.mcandl.com/puni_states.html

It took me 1 minute to find this. I am also aware that if the state allows coverage of punitive damages, the policy will cover it most of the time. Surely Arizona would have bought coverage for police actions that included this coverage, even if they paid a hefty premium.

Now who has been misstating the law?

Finally, news reports said all but $1 million was covered by insurance, as someone noted.

I never made a claim as to AZ law. Try to read more carefully.

Also, i said wronfgul death law had been misstated, not insurance law. Again, try to read more carefully.

I am gald you found out AZ law allows coverage for puntive damages. Thta still leaves the question of what is the policy limit and what is the basis for the supposed bad faith. But I concede, as I have several times, that I know nothing of AZ law on either issue.

[Green Monstah]

How long was the trial? If you had 5 attorneys billing at 500/hr each for 12 hours a day, you'd be spending 30k/day at trial. So unless this wrongful death trial lasted 333 days, I'm guessing you were south of 10 million. Just a haphazard guess, though.

My apologies for pre-trial and trial.

[Donuthole]

My apologies for pre-trial and trial.

Oh, well in that case, nevermind.

[Green Monstah]

At any rate, Rest in peece Scott Norberg....it's a tragedy no matter how you cut it.

[Green Monstah]

Are you saying on the plaintiff's side you billed more than 5 million? Was this time actually invoiced to and paid by clients or was this time on records kept for internal accounting on a contingent fee matter?

I don't know what plaintiff's side spent. I'm just a lowly transactional lawyer who listens to litigators talk about their trials (when they actually get one once every five years).

[falafel]

I don't know what plaintiff's side spent. I'm just a lowly transactional lawyer who listens to litigators talk about their trials (when they actually get one once every five years).

Ah, well, we all know litigators can't be trusted. Especially when they're bragging to transactional guys.

[Green Monstah]

Ah, well, we all know litigators can't be trusted. Especially when they're bragging to transactional guys.

That's the most true statement I've heard in this entire thread. They could be blowing smoke....

I admittedly don't know a lot about the world of insurance defense. However, the one litigation matter I did work on had a total legal bill (both sides) of over $105MM...paid by the debtor), so my worldview is probably a little skewed when it comes to costs of litigation.

[MarkGrace]

On the surface, my self-portrait may now be muddled and marred. But underneath await the colors of a masterpiece. Beneath crude rock, a "David" is still breathing. Love, Scott.

Beautiful.

[KillerDog]

That's the most true statement I've heard in this entire thread. They could be blowing smoke....

I admittedly don't know a lot about the world of insurance defense. However, the one litigation matter I did work on had a total legal bill (both sides) of over $105MM...paid by the debtor), so my worldview is probably a little skewed when it comes to costs of litigation.

It is. I do insurance defense in Utah where the rates are pretty similar to Arizona. Insurance companies range over a broad spectrum but the good ones I work for pay associates 200/hr regardless of year and partners 250/hr. Panel counsel does a bit better. The bad ones (think AIG and other huge insurers) pay 170-180/hr for associates and 210/hr for partners who aren't panel counsel. I also know there are insurers we won't work for because their rates are too low.

I do a lot of insurance defense budgets. Even considering a large number of depositions and lots of experts, I've rarely turned in a budget to trial of $250k. A 500k insurance defense budget would cause the insurer to shit. Litigation can be expensive, especially when it is bet the farm litigation, but this settlement definitely isn't cost of defense driven (to return to the original point). It is clearly driven by other things. If I were to speculate, I would say this settlement is driven by a clause in the S.A. prohibiting the family from ever talking about this again. My guess, is that part of this settlement is to keep the made for TV movie, staring Dolf Lundgren, from ever being made.

Creekster is right that we can't really determine what drove the settlement but I think we can determine what didn't. In my opinion, cost of defense didn't drive it and neither did actual damages.

[ERCougar]

Wow man, your opening yourself up for some fire. I see your point, but nobody likes hearing death is a better option. I really relate to his story pretty personally, recovering from my own addiction and keeping a keen eye on my sobriety date. I pray nobody thought I'd be better off dead, even as I also chucked my career down the toilet. Changing a spiraling life makes a great story, and it seems he wanted it. Maybe he'd get his own Court McGee kind of story http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=11624831

There's always a chance for a change. I think the way the article is written, and how it portrays his desire to be different in the future, it really lays out a guy that knew what he wanted to be... he was asking for a blessing for heavens sakes, before being arrested. What pisses me off about the whole thing is seeing authority that I respect, behaving so horrifically. Whether, he fought back or not, that is not how anybody should act... and this is coming from a Tongan thats been through plenty of fights. I've spent time with the Salt Lake Metro Gang unit, and am surprised how much abuse they take, while keeping a calm demeanor. That's just a shame down there.

Completely agree. One of my major pet peeves is people who rip on cops. I get a taste of what they have to deal with in my job, and sometimes, it's all I can do not to choke some of these people. I've spent time on SWAT teams and gang units, not to mention interacting with police officers on a daily basis, and I'm continually amazed at how these guys keep their cool. You have your occasional bad apple, overcompensating type, but everyone knows who they are and they're essentially shunned, or at least kept out of trouble spots (in a good department). What is obvious to me from the story is that this is a department where that type of behavior was not only not frowned upon, but almost encouraged. It's the exception that proves the rule that most police departments are very well run, and most police officers are trying to do a very difficult job in a very trying set of circumstances that most of us couldn't handle.