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  • All right, everybody, here is what has happened and is happening.

    As you can imagine, a lot happens out of the public view and much of what has recently transpired has been in the works for years now. The PAC 10 has known ever since championship games began that expansion was inevitable, and BYU had been positioning themselves to be a candidate for expansion, particularly by scheduling PAC 10 games. Given that the MWC's two best bowls, at least one of which would certainly scoop BYU up, already feature a PAC 10 team, each year's schedule practically ensured two PAC 10 games.

    Two things happened that led to the recent turn of events. The first is a rising Utah. It's no secret that the PAC 10 didn't want BYU, but the PAC 10 would have had little other choice if they had wanted to go to 12 in, say, 2001. Even the 2004 Utes did little to instill confidence in PAC 10 officials; note that after busting the BCS, the head coach and offensive coordinators left, and only a hefty salary increase kept the defensive coordinator on board. 2008 showed that Utah was a program that would at the very least be acceptable, with no need to hold one's nose over the church stuff BYU would have brought along with it. Notice too the recent surge of Utah PAC 10 games.

    The second was the prospects of a TV deal. The Big 10 has broken new ground with its channel, and the millions upon millions of dollars it is earning has escaped nobody's attention. The PAC 10 might have been able to resist the allure of adding a championship game before, given both the risks and headaches inherent in expansion, but the potential profit margin is now blowing away the risk analysis.

    That Utah would be going to the PAC 10 has been settled for a while now. Really, the only thing that surprised anybody in the carousel of this summer was that the PAC 10 came so close to pulling off the 16 team proposal. Most had been planning on the actual outcome for some time now. BYU's frustration over playing PAC 10 teams with PAC 10 refs reflects this realization. It was about this time that the really important decisions had been made, and the rest was about the hoops that had to be jumped through.

    So too have the die been cast as to the fate of the Big XII and BYU. Note the sudden attention BYU is paying to Big XII teams like Oklahoma and Texas. They are positioning themselves for the inevitable. BYU and the Big XII have already rendered an understanding between each other that expansion will happen and that BYU will join.

    It isn't going to happen immediately for two reasons. One is that BYU is not an ideal candidate for the Big XII. Religion doesn't have anything to do with it this time-- it's a matter of distance. Utah is fairly equidistant to the other PAC schools, but look at a map and compare the nucleus of Big XII schools to BYU. Utah is a ways away from Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, and Iowa. There is also the matter of the second candidate for expansion. To expand immediately, the Big XII would have to invite somebody that would accept immediately, like TCU, Houston, AFA, or CSU, none of whom contribute much more than a 12th body. An immediate move would also damage conference prestige, making the conference look desperate in a landscape where image has an awful lot to do with who ends up at the top of the rankings come bowl season.

    A championship game at JerryWorld is just too much to resist, practically paying for the addition of the twelfth team even if that team were to add nothing else (though probably not for an eleventh AND twelfth team). A year or two gives the Big XII a chance to test the loyalty of Notre Dame, Arkansas, or Louisville and to cast expansion to 12 as an offensive maneuver rather than a defensive reaction. The Big XII is therefore ostensibly petitioning to have the game with 10 or 11, a request they know full well will fail but gives plausible deniability in the meantime. Once the decision denying their request comes down and a year or two of no Jerryworld starts to weigh on those dissenters powerful enough to make the process rough, the invites will come.

    BYU is aware of all of the above, but for obvious reasons, have to keep quiet. What THEY know, however, and what the Big XII doesn't know, is that BYU is about to be invited to join the NFC West division. The NFL, aware of BYU's international and divine following, is anxious to have the Cougars on board, even if they must work around the Sunday play issue. One serious discussion in the ongoing negotiations is to play games across the international date line in the Philippines, where there is a strong LDS population, so the TV will be able to show the game on Sunday even though the game will technically be played on a Monday. Fans across the nation, keenly aware of the attendance prowess of the Provo juggernaut, are also expressing their willingness to give up beer if it means bringing BYU on board.
    τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

    Comment


    • I thought ya'll might like this discussion:

      http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwth...=5&o=0&fpart=1

      Don't sweat this. BYU is in the catbird's seat. Just keep on doing what you're doing (ie beating up the Dirt Burglers in Jerryworld). Screwing OU outta a MNC earns brownie points w/ the Sooners as noted on page 85 of that modern day masterpiece The Bootleggers Boy by the Bootleggers Boy, "KU cost me two national championships in 1977 and 1984." Everytime I've gone down to Norman, you're average Dirt Burgler notes that fact. UT loves ya, OU loves ya. He!!, even Baylor seems to love you. Baptists vs Mormons. Missourians vs Mormons. Nutless Bovines/Dirt Burglers vs Mormons. And ya'll thought thought this last year of the old Big 12 was gonna be a SHOW w/ DOCTOR Tom's (I didn't run the score up) theatrics.

      And in the Norte, you'll find the heart of the old Big 8 a great place to be. It ain't Vegas or San Diego, but you can a buy Pork Chop on a Stick in Ames or smell the Arthur Bryants BBQ in Lawrence or hike the Konza Prairie south of Mancrappie and realize you just don't miss all that West Coast nonsense. I do regret you will have to visit Columbia Missoura, though. Sorry.

      Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

      Comment


      • Originally posted by All-American View Post
        BYU is aware of all of the above, but for obvious reasons, have to keep quiet. What THEY know, however, and what the Big XII doesn't know, is that BYU is about to be invited to join the NFC West division. The NFL, aware of BYU's international and divine following, is anxious to have the Cougars on board, even if they must work around the Sunday play issue. One serious discussion in the ongoing negotiations is to play games across the international date line in the Philippines, where there is a strong LDS population, so the TV will be able to show the game on Sunday even though the game will technically be played on a Monday. Fans across the nation, keenly aware of the attendance prowess of the Provo juggernaut, are also expressing their willingness to give up beer if it means bringing BYU on board.
        This make perfect sense given the people of St. Louis have forgotten that college football exist. Hopefully this move will save them before it is too late like the poor souls in Denver who have turned their backs on the religion of college football as Larry Scott will soon find out.

        There's talk that some Pac-10 schools are down on Colorado's academics and overall sports programs, but sources say Pac-10 commissioner Larry Scott wants the Denver market.

        Denver has never been a college TV market, much less a Colorado Buffaloes TV market. It's all about the Broncos and pro sports.
        As for the Sunday play issue, the BYU administration has the power to move days of the week. When I was at school at BYU they would occasionally make a Monday a Tuesday, for example. Therefore, the solution is simple. The BYU administration will move Sunday to another day of the week so it doesn't conflict the NFL's schedule.
        "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
        "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
        "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Red Legger View Post
          http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwth...=5&o=0&fpart=1

          Don't sweat this. BYU is in the catbird's seat. Just keep on doing what you're doing (ie beating up the Dirt Burglers in Jerryworld). Screwing OU outta a MNC earns brownie points w/ the Sooners as noted on page 85 of that modern day masterpiece The Bootleggers Boy by the Bootleggers Boy, "KU cost me two national championships in 1977 and 1984." Everytime I've gone down to Norman, you're average Dirt Burgler notes that fact. UT loves ya, OU loves ya. He!!, even Baylor seems to love you. Baptists vs Mormons. Missourians vs Mormons. Nutless Bovines/Dirt Burglers vs Mormons. And ya'll thought thought this last year of the old Big 12 was gonna be a SHOW w/ DOCTOR Tom's (I didn't run the score up) theatrics.

          And in the Norte, you'll find the heart of the old Big 8 a great place to be. It ain't Vegas or San Diego, but you can a buy Pork Chop on a Stick in Ames or smell the Arthur Bryants BBQ in Lawrence or hike the Konza Prairie south of Mancrappie and realize you just don't miss all that West Coast nonsense. I do regret you will have to visit Columbia Missoura, though. Sorry.

          Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou
          It seems the Baylor fans are warming up to the idea as well. The next thing you will know the baptists might actually start thinking mormons are christians and not members of a cult.
          "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
          "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
          "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
          GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by All-American View Post
            BYU is aware of all of the above, but for obvious reasons, have to keep quiet. What THEY know, however, and what the Big XII doesn't know, is that BYU is about to be invited to join the NFC West division. The NFL, aware of BYU's international and divine following, is anxious to have the Cougars on board, even if they must work around the Sunday play issue. One serious discussion in the ongoing negotiations is to play games across the international date line in the Philippines, where there is a strong LDS population, so the TV will be able to show the game on Sunday even though the game will technically be played on a Monday. Fans across the nation, keenly aware of the attendance prowess of the Provo juggernaut, are also expressing their willingness to give up beer if it means bringing BYU on board.
            I nominate this for CUFFIE paragraph of the year.
            “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
            ― W.H. Auden


            "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
            -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


            "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
            --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

            Comment


            • Originally posted by All-American View Post
              All right, everybody, here is what has happened and is happening.

              As you can imagine, a lot happens out of the public view and much of what has recently transpired has been in the works for years now. The PAC 10 has known ever since championship games began that expansion was inevitable, and BYU had been positioning themselves to be a candidate for expansion, particularly by scheduling PAC 10 games. Given that the MWC's two best bowls, at least one of which would certainly scoop BYU up, already feature a PAC 10 team, each year's schedule practically ensured two PAC 10 games.

              Two things happened that led to the recent turn of events. The first is a rising Utah. It's no secret that the PAC 10 didn't want BYU, but the PAC 10 would have had little other choice if they had wanted to go to 12 in, say, 2001. Even the 2004 Utes did little to instill confidence in PAC 10 officials; note that after busting the BCS, the head coach and offensive coordinators left, and only a hefty salary increase kept the defensive coordinator on board. 2008 showed that Utah was a program that would at the very least be acceptable, with no need to hold one's nose over the church stuff BYU would have brought along with it. Notice too the recent surge of Utah PAC 10 games.

              The second was the prospects of a TV deal. The Big 10 has broken new ground with its channel, and the millions upon millions of dollars it is earning has escaped nobody's attention. The PAC 10 might have been able to resist the allure of adding a championship game before, given both the risks and headaches inherent in expansion, but the potential profit margin is now blowing away the risk analysis.

              That Utah would be going to the PAC 10 has been settled for a while now. Really, the only thing that surprised anybody in the carousel of this summer was that the PAC 10 came so close to pulling off the 16 team proposal. Most had been planning on the actual outcome for some time now. BYU's frustration over playing PAC 10 teams with PAC 10 refs reflects this realization. It was about this time that the really important decisions had been made, and the rest was about the hoops that had to be jumped through.

              So too have the die been cast as to the fate of the Big XII and BYU. Note the sudden attention BYU is paying to Big XII teams like Oklahoma and Texas. They are positioning themselves for the inevitable. BYU and the Big XII have already rendered an understanding between each other that expansion will happen and that BYU will join.

              It isn't going to happen immediately for two reasons. One is that BYU is not an ideal candidate for the Big XII. Religion doesn't have anything to do with it this time-- it's a matter of distance. Utah is fairly equidistant to the other PAC schools, but look at a map and compare the nucleus of Big XII schools to BYU. Utah is a ways away from Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, and Iowa. There is also the matter of the second candidate for expansion. To expand immediately, the Big XII would have to invite somebody that would accept immediately, like TCU, Houston, AFA, or CSU, none of whom contribute much more than a 12th body. An immediate move would also damage conference prestige, making the conference look desperate in a landscape where image has an awful lot to do with who ends up at the top of the rankings come bowl season.

              A championship game at JerryWorld is just too much to resist, practically paying for the addition of the twelfth team even if that team were to add nothing else (though probably not for an eleventh AND twelfth team). A year or two gives the Big XII a chance to test the loyalty of Notre Dame, Arkansas, or Louisville and to cast expansion to 12 as an offensive maneuver rather than a defensive reaction. The Big XII is therefore ostensibly petitioning to have the game with 10 or 11, a request they know full well will fail but gives plausible deniability in the meantime. Once the decision denying their request comes down and a year or two of no Jerryworld starts to weigh on those dissenters powerful enough to make the process rough, the invites will come.

              BYU is aware of all of the above, but for obvious reasons, have to keep quiet. What THEY know, however, and what the Big XII doesn't know, is that BYU is about to be invited to join the NFC West division. The NFL, aware of BYU's international and divine following, is anxious to have the Cougars on board, even if they must work around the Sunday play issue. One serious discussion in the ongoing negotiations is to play games across the international date line in the Philippines, where there is a strong LDS population, so the TV will be able to show the game on Sunday even though the game will technically be played on a Monday. Fans across the nation, keenly aware of the attendance prowess of the Provo juggernaut, are also expressing their willingness to give up beer if it means bringing BYU on board.

              Everything down to the "So too..." paragraph is basically correct. I had thought that the analysis then veered off into a spasm of wishful thinking, until the last paragraph. Is AA making fun of BYU fans' wishful thinking? Perhaps. I think that deep inside AA is rational, more SU than not.

              AA is correct that distance is a major factor. Distince matters not just because of logistical complications and added costs, but also it makes for cutural separation. Religion most emphatically is a factor in the Big 12. The leading academic institutions in the Big 12--Texas, TAMU and Kansas--perceive BYU much like the Pac 10 does. Mizzou likely does as well, as it is located in a fairly urban environment culturally connected to the mega-urban centers of the Great Lakes. Sunday play is also a convenient mantra for those who are uncomfortable with BYU's mixing of academia and conservative religion. Then with schools that are sypathetically oriented toward religion--such as Baylor--there is the old fashioned inter-religious animus against Mormons typical of Southern Protestants.

              I think BYU stays in the MWC. My 2 cents.

              EDIT: Finallly, BYU is not keeping quiet. The stench of Holmoe's desperation could not be stronger. He's running off at the mouth in pathetic grasping ways. But he should give himself a break. It's not salesmanship that got Utah into the Pac 10.
              Last edited by SeattleUte; 07-25-2010, 09:21 AM.
              When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

              --Jonathan Swift

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                Distince matters not just because of logistical complications and added costs, but also it makes for cutural separation.
                It's disappointing that you go to the bother of editing your post, not to mention the extra effort of always changing the font in your bolded but threadbare troll, but don't care enough about us to proofread your own posts. Why do you hate us?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
                  It's disappointing that you go to the bother of editing your post, not to mention the extra effort of always changing the font in your bolded but threadbare troll, but don't care enough about us to proofread your own posts. Why do you hate us?
                  I'm sorry. I'm having a problem with my L key on my laptop. I have to press extra hard. No insut intended.
                  When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                  --Jonathan Swift

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                    I think BYU stays in the MWC for a few more years. My 2 cents.

                    EDIT: Finallly, BYU is not keeping quiet. The stench of Holmoe's desperation could not be stronger. He's running off at the mouth in pathetic grasping ways. But he should give himself a break. It's not salesmanship that got Utah into the Pac 10.
                    (Fix it for you.)

                    Yes, BYU will most likely stay in the MWC for a few more years. The Big 12-2 will most likely try things out with less than 12 teams for a year or two but contracts will expire and the pressure to add that lucrative conference title game and teams that bring tremendous value to the conference will come around. BYU may also have its cougar sports network up in full swing by then. Something that Ute fans will only be able to wish for.

                    Yes, it wasn't anything to do with salesmanship that got Utah into the Pac-10+2. It was all these years riding on the tail coat of BYU and the fact that California can't overcome its religious bigotry. Ironically, the Utes and their fans will most likely be BYU's whipping boy in the Pac-10+2.
                    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
                      I nominate this for CUFFIE paragraph of the year.
                      i thought that paragraph ruined an otherwise great post.

                      i agree with SU that this thread is filled with a bunch of nothingness. clearly something is going on, but this thread really isn't enlightening whatsoever on what that is. With Holmoe's loose lips earlier on, i had high hopes that things would leak out, and with HB Arnett's claim, it seems like there could be more information out there, it just isn't making it into this thread.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ted Nugent View Post
                        (Fix it for you.)

                        Yes, BYU will most likely stay in the MWC for a few more years. The Big 12-2 will most likely try things out with less than 12 teams for a year or two but contracts will expire and the pressure to add that lucrative conference title game and teams that bring tremendous value to the conference will come around. BYU may also have its cougar sports network up in full swing by then. Something that Ute fans will only be able to wish for.

                        Yes, it wasn't anything to do with salesmanship that got Utah into the Pac-10+2. It was all these years riding on the tail coat of BYU and the fact that California can't overcome its religious bigotry. Ironically, the Utes and their fans will most likely be BYU's whipping boy in the Pac-10+2.
                        You're better than this.

                        BYU will be in the Big 12 when Christ comes down and personally fixes the problem.
                        When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                        --Jonathan Swift

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                          You're better than this.

                          BYU will be in the Big 12 when Christ comes down and personally fixes the problem.
                          You make a good point. The way things are going Christ could show up in few years. Good catch.
                          "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                          "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                          "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                          GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Red Legger View Post
                            http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwth...=5&o=0&fpart=1

                            Don't sweat this. BYU is in the catbird's seat. Just keep on doing what you're doing (ie beating up the Dirt Burglers in Jerryworld). Screwing OU outta a MNC earns brownie points w/ the Sooners as noted on page 85 of that modern day masterpiece The Bootleggers Boy by the Bootleggers Boy, "KU cost me two national championships in 1977 and 1984." Everytime I've gone down to Norman, you're average Dirt Burgler notes that fact. UT loves ya, OU loves ya. He!!, even Baylor seems to love you. Baptists vs Mormons. Missourians vs Mormons. Nutless Bovines/Dirt Burglers vs Mormons. And ya'll thought thought this last year of the old Big 12 was gonna be a SHOW w/ DOCTOR Tom's (I didn't run the score up) theatrics.

                            And in the Norte, you'll find the heart of the old Big 8 a great place to be. It ain't Vegas or San Diego, but you can a buy Pork Chop on a Stick in Ames or smell the Arthur Bryants BBQ in Lawrence or hike the Konza Prairie south of Mancrappie and realize you just don't miss all that West Coast nonsense. I do regret you will have to visit Columbia Missoura, though. Sorry.

                            Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou
                            Dirt burglars. lol!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Red Legger View Post
                              http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwth...=5&o=0&fpart=1

                              Don't sweat this. BYU is in the catbird's seat. Just keep on doing what you're doing (ie beating up the Dirt Burglers in Jerryworld). Screwing OU outta a MNC earns brownie points w/ the Sooners as noted on page 85 of that modern day masterpiece The Bootleggers Boy by the Bootleggers Boy, "KU cost me two national championships in 1977 and 1984." Everytime I've gone down to Norman, you're average Dirt Burgler notes that fact. UT loves ya, OU loves ya. He!!, even Baylor seems to love you. Baptists vs Mormons. Missourians vs Mormons. Nutless Bovines/Dirt Burglers vs Mormons. And ya'll thought thought this last year of the old Big 12 was gonna be a SHOW w/ DOCTOR Tom's (I didn't run the score up) theatrics.

                              And in the Norte, you'll find the heart of the old Big 8 a great place to be. It ain't Vegas or San Diego, but you can a buy Pork Chop on a Stick in Ames or smell the Arthur Bryants BBQ in Lawrence or hike the Konza Prairie south of Mancrappie and realize you just don't miss all that West Coast nonsense. I do regret you will have to visit Columbia Missoura, though. Sorry.

                              Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou
                              Something about this post seems very familiar, Red Legger:

                              http://boards.kusports.com/showflat....ge=926&fpart=2
                              “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                              ― W.H. Auden


                              "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                              -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                              "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                              --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by YOhio View Post
                                Dirt burglars. lol!
                                I know! Will the cleverness never end?

                                Comment

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