Unga's withdrawing from school.

[Indy Coug]

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=5458920

[DU Ute]

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=5458920

[LA Ute]

I am glad I can come here to CUF where all BYU fans are not only perfectly objective on the issue of Harvey, but exceedingly compassionate about it. The best of all possible worlds! (Sadly, it appears that Ute fans are thought to be biased and hard-hearted, which is what one can expect from people who are so frustrated with their lives pumping gas or working as grocery store baggers.)

Again, for the record, I hope Harvey can come back this fall. I just hope we let the kid play football and not turn his story into a morality play. He chose to go to BYU and signed up to follow the rules. He broke them, which many young hormone-filled people do, and he really should have held himself to a higher standard because he knew he was a high-profile guy. But he fouled up and now he's dealing with it. So let him and his church and BYU just deal with it, I say.

End of rant.

[byu71]

I am glad I can come here to CUF where all BYU fans are not only perfectly objective on the issue of Harvey, but exceedingly compassionate about it. The best of all possible worlds! (Sadly, it appears that Ute fans are thought to be biased and hard-hearted, which is what one can expect from people who are so frustrated with their lives pumping gas or working as grocery store baggers.)

Again, for the record, I hope Harvey can come back this fall. I just hope we let the kid play football and not turn his story into a morality play. He chose to go to BYU and signed up to follow the rules. He broke them, which many young hormone-filled people do, and he really should have held himself to a higher standard because he knew he was a high-profile guy. But he fouled up and now he's dealing with it. So let him and his church and BYU just deal with it, I say.

End of rant.

Don't let the extreme's in each fan base get to you. Look at them as an opportunity to have some quick fun. A quickie if you will. With them it does no good to get in a long relationship because it becomes frustrating and quickies turn into more committment than you want.

By the way, I don't think we have much of the extreme elements on here. Thus, not so much fun if you are into quickies.

[TripletDaddy]

Don't let the extreme's in each fan base get to you.

good advice.

[LA Ute]

Don't let the extreme's in each fan base get to you. Look at them as an opportunity to have some quick fun. A quickie if you will. With them it does no good to get in a long relationship because it becomes frustrating and quickies turn into more committment than you want.

By the way, I don't think we have much of the extreme elements on here. Thus, not so much fun if you are into quickies.

You're right, my rant was really more appropriately directed at CB than CUF. No offense meant, guys and gals.

[dabrockster]

In regards to Jay's post: Part of me thinks that the reason why it is random and inconsistent is because the honor code tries to take on a ecclesiastical role in all cases. Almost like a Bishop who is helping a person repent etc.. Which is why they vary in penalties and also due to the more harsh penalties against athletes who have a celebrity like status (To save face at times)..

Because of this I think it will always bring people for or against it..


As for Unga, I feel bad for him and I think he will overcome this and be better for it. I hope he can play (At BYU or at the NFL) and I will always cheer for him..

[jay santos]

I am glad I can come here to CUF where all BYU fans are not only perfectly objective on the issue of Harvey, but exceedingly compassionate about it. The best of all possible worlds! (Sadly, it appears that Ute fans are thought to be biased and hard-hearted, which is what one can expect from people who are so frustrated with their lives pumping gas or working as grocery store baggers.)

Again, for the record, I hope Harvey can come back this fall. I just hope we let the kid play football and not turn his story into a morality play. He chose to go to BYU and signed up to follow the rules. He broke them, which many young hormone-filled people do, and he really should have held himself to a higher standard because he knew he was a high-profile guy. But he fouled up and now he's dealing with it. So let him and his church and BYU just deal with it, I say.

End of rant.

Your rant may be in part directed at me. For the record, LDS legalism, Phariseeism, overfocus on "worthiness", how we think we need to be better than others, how we define "righteousness", church discipline system, etc, etc, is one of my biggest hot buttons. How I feel about BYU Honor Code enforcement is a subset of that.

[LA Ute]

Your rant may be in part directed at me. For the record, LDS legalism, Phariseeism, overfocus on "worthiness", how we think we need to be better than others, how we define "righteousness", church discipline system, etc, etc, is one of my biggest hot buttons. How I feel about BYU Honor Code enforcement is a subset of that.

No, I was not thinking of you at all. Your "hot button," whether I agree with it or not -- and that's a complex thing -- is based on rational and sincere thought, it seems to me. I was mainly ranting about folks operating from a base of pure partisan bias.

[byu71]

I was mainly ranting about folks operating from a base of pure partisan bias.

Like those who can't for the life of them understand why Ute fans, ( it is really only a few Ute fans) call BYU and their fans (generalization whenever fans talk about other fans) hypocrites if the let Harvey back in.

Most of these same folks (BYU fans and a lesser generalization) though do the following:

1) Revel in the fact BYU has higher standards.

2) Claim a Utah recruit can't get into BYU because of the recruits character.

3) Talk about how much more moral BYU is because they have the honor code.

4) Condemn Whittingham of low moral conduct because of the lack of discipline he gives some of his players.

They then can't understand why Ute fans ( generalization) want to comment on a BYU player breaking the honor code and getting back in.

All of this is quite understandable, unless you have tunnel vision.

[hostile]

I have essentially no experience at all with the HC at BYU. Reading about it in the media, which usually only reports on athlete's violations, has a tendency to skew the overall opinion of the HC in the community (IMO).

The only personal experience I can claim is a cousin who was kicked out of school for violating the HC. I think he was involved in, what I would call "typical locker-room antics" - towel flipping someone who had just got out of the shower. When my cousin refused to stop after being asked, the "victim" reported him the the dorm RA. At that point it was passed up to the HC.

My cousin talked with his father and my brother, an attorney, about what he should do in his meeting with the HC. They both advised him to be remorseful and show contrition. He apparently chose a different tactic. After explaining the interview to my cousin's father, the HC representative indicated that the reason for expulsion wasn't so much the act, but the attitude and lack of acceptance that something wrong had been done.

I have no idea if this is relevant to the current discussion, other than it is my only insight into how the HC is enforced.

[byu71]

I have essentially no experience at all with the HC at BYU. Reading about it in the media, which usually only reports on athlete's violations, has a tendency to skew the overall opinion of the HC in the community (IMO).

The only personal experience I can claim is a cousin who was kicked out of school for violating the HC. I think he was involved in, what I would call "typical locker-room antics" - towel flipping someone who had just got out of the shower. When my cousin refused to stop after being asked, the "victim" reported him the the dorm RA. At that point it was passed up to the HC.

My cousin talked with his father and my brother, an attorney, about what he should do in his meeting with the HC. They both advised him to be remorseful and show contrition. He apparently chose a different tactic. After explaining the interview to my cousin's father, the HC representative indicated that the reason for expulsion wasn't so much the act, but the attitude and lack of acceptance that something wrong had been done.

I have no idea if this is relevant to the current discussion, other than it is my only insight into how the HC is enforced.

There has to be an element down there that feels when they speak, God is speaking. That alone would make one think they can do no wrong. Also I think how President Samuelson answered a question when they hired Bronco is a bit telling. He said to the reporter, we know the answer but we aren't going to tell you. Something like, at BYU we will keep whatever we want amongst just us. We aren't accountable to the press. While I agree, the we are always right attitude has to be somewhat intoxicating even for really good people.

[dabrockster]

I have essentially no experience at all with the HC at BYU. Reading about it in the media, which usually only reports on athlete's violations, has a tendency to skew the overall opinion of the HC in the community (IMO).

The only personal experience I can claim is a cousin who was kicked out of school for violating the HC. I think he was involved in, what I would call "typical locker-room antics" - towel flipping someone who had just got out of the shower. When my cousin refused to stop after being asked, the "victim" reported him the the dorm RA. At that point it was passed up to the HC.

My cousin talked with his father and my brother, an attorney, about what he should do in his meeting with the HC. They both advised him to be remorseful and show contrition. He apparently chose a different tactic. After explaining the interview to my cousin's father, the HC representative indicated that the reason for expulsion wasn't so much the act, but the attitude and lack of acceptance that something wrong had been done.

I have no idea if this is relevant to the current discussion, other than it is my only insight into how the HC is enforced.

This goes directly to my thoughts of HC taking a "Bishop-like" role when enforcing the HC rules... I tend to think it is not appropriate in making decisions to expel or suspend students..

[jay santos]

Everything I'm reading (which is just the local media blogs and random CB posts) makes it look bad for Unga's return. This sucks.

[jay santos]

More rumors that this is a done deal that Unga won't be allowed back. I really thought BYU would do the right thing on this. This really hurts me. I think I might consider taking a break from being a BYU fan for a season because of this.