I really hope BYU didn't tell Heimuli this..

[Indy Coug]

I'm not going to look it up, so maybe you individually weren't, but this isn't the song everyone was singing last year with Teo. And I would bet my house this wouldn't be the song everyone was singing if it was Heaps. I guess I just need to get one of the flow charts that says "We still covet and want this player if he takes time on the Magical Mystery BCS Tour" or "We don't have time for this loser that thinks he wants to check out the Magical Mystery BCS Tour". If you have one of those flow charts please forward it to me.

Te'o showed a LOT more interest in BYU during the recruiting process than Heimuli ever did. If he hadn't gotten shit-faced during his recruiting visit to Provo, he would be playing for BYU now. Furthermore, LB was a much bigger need position last year than DL this year and the talent dropoff between Te'o and others was a lot more stark than the dropoff (if any) between Heimuli and others.

Heimuli was repeatedly apprised of the status of his offer with BYU and that BYU was running out of scholarships and he continued to be wishy-washy at best with his interest, including as recently as foregoing the big recruit weekend in Provo last weekend to visit UCLA instead.

[jay santos]

This in general seems to be Bronco's recruiting philosophy, hard ball. You are going to lose more of the top guys than you get with that philosophy.

It isn't the kids that set up the system of LOI day, it isn't the kids that are making any money off LOI day, it is the kids that are hostages once they sign on the dotted line. If Heimuli would have taken to Bronco's arm twisting and Bronco decided to bolt to the NFL or become a GA, Heimuli can't leave without penalty. So if the trade off is that the kids get to hold the schools hostage for 5 weeks at the first of the year before they sign it is still a bad deal for them.

My observation FWIW is that the top LDS Polynesian players over the past 10 years have needed to be coddled. They want to be treated like prima dona's. If you play hard ball, you won't get them. Are we satisfied with that as a program?

[jay santos]

My thing is I do not think BYU is in a position to pass up on a 3 star D-tackle because they might have a shot at a 4 star D-tackle on signing day. If they pass on that 3 star, end up not getting the 4 star, then we end up with guys like Kellen Fowler and Matt Bauman starting on defense.

That's not the choice, though. The choice is offering Kellen Fowler or holding a couple schollies for the 4 stars you have to wine and dine until the end.

[Indy Coug]

My observation FWIW is that the top LDS Polynesian players over the past 10 years have needed to be coddled. They want to be treated like prima dona's. If you play hard ball, you won't get them. Are we satisfied with that as a program?

Are we really hurting for landing Polynesian recruits? We probably have a higher percentage of Polys in the program than ever before.

[jay santos]

Are we really hurting for landing Polynesian recruits? We probably have a higher percentage of Polys in the program than ever before.

If you ranked the top Poly DT's over the past 6-8 years, I doubt we get 1/2 of them. DT is the most important position on the defense behind the CB. I'd like to get the best Poly DT every year, but that's not been happening.

[SCcoug]

Well, how many big time recruits does BYU get who don't make official visits and wait until signing day to make a decision? He gave BYU no reason to hold an offer for him this year.

[Hot Lunch]

That's not the choice, though. The choice is offering Kellen Fowler or holding a couple schollies for the 4 stars you have to wine and dine until the end.

No you don't offer guys like Kellen Fowler. I will say this, I agree with Junkie on what he said about holding a schollie for Ricky but there are about 7 to 8 guys that will sign on Feb. 3rd that I really scratch my head about and wonder why did they recruit that kid.

You could say that every year about recruiting classes and some of them turn out to be great and some don't.

[jay santos]

No you don't offer guys like Kellen Fowler. I will say this, I agree with Junkie on what he said about holding a schollie for Ricky but there are about 7 to 8 guys that will sign on Feb. 3rd that I really scratch my head about and wonder why did they recruit that kid.

You could say that every year about recruiting classes and some of them turn out to be great and some don't.

The other thing I'd like to see is no more offering a kid and telling him there are no schollies available for him next fall, but he can have one when he comes back from his mission.

Why? Because if he's that quality of a recruit, we don't want him using a schollie in two years. This is called buying recruits with credit cards instead of cash. Stop doing it. Part of the reason we don't have a scholarship for Heimuli and Kaveinga is that we offered crappy kids schollies two years ago and told them to go straight on a mission and now they're back.

[Indy Coug]

The other thing I'd like to see is no more offering a kid and telling him there are no schollies available for him next fall, but he can have one when he comes back from his mission.

Why? Because if he's that quality of a recruit, we don't want him using a schollie in two years. This is called buying recruits with credit cards instead of cash. Stop doing it. Part of the reason we don't have a scholarship for Heimuli and Kaveinga is that we offered crappy kids schollies two years ago and told them to go straight on a mission and now they're back.

Can you list the names of said crappy players?

[jay santos]

Can you list the names of said crappy players?

Every year there are at least two unrated or two star players we send straight on a mission. I'll bet a month's salary on it.

[jay santos]

Back in the day the Crowton homers would whine and complain about the scholarship situation, crucifying Lavell for the problem. Then say nothing about Crowton oversigning and sending guys like Chase Warner, Aaron Attig, Dan Van Sweden directly on a mission promising scholarships when they return.

[Indy Coug]

Back in the day the Crowton homers would whine and complain about the scholarship situation, crucifying Lavell for the problem. Then say nothing about Crowton oversigning and sending guys like Chase Warner, Aaron Attig, Dan Van Sweden directly on a mission promising scholarships when they return.

Get your fact straight. Chase Warner was a walk-on. He declined a scholarship at Reno to walk-on at BYU. The story has been told and retold often.

Oversigning? Here are the commits by year:

2002 - 14
2003 - 13
2004 - 28
Average - 18.3

2005 - 18
2006 - 25
2007 - 27
2008 - 25
2009 - 22
2010 - 27
Average - 24

Bronco has as many commits this year as Crowton had in 2002 and 2003 combined. BYU lost so many of the 2004 commits in the first year that the oversigning in 2004 didn't have any real downstream effect as far as scholarship availability goes; although the high attrition rate had significant longterm fallout, particularly in the DB ranks.

[Hot Lunch]

Can you list the names of said crappy players?

I will throw out my head scratchers for you.

Jordan Afo
Jake Henneman
Brian Sampson
Teu Kautai
Manu Muitalo
Travis Tuiloma
Sae Tautu
Joey Owens

[Indy Coug]

I will throw out my head scratchers for you.

Jordan Afo
Jake Henneman
Brian Sampson
Teu Kautai
Manu Muitalo
Travis Tuiloma
Sae Tautu

Just as a frame of reference to understand your head scratching, how many of these guys have you seen play?

[Jarid in Cedar]

I will throw out my head scratchers for you.

Jordan Afo
Jake Henneman
Brian Sampson
Teu Kautai
Manu Muitalo
Travis Tuiloma
Sae Tautu

Afo was definitely a head scratcher. Given the injury that he had, he seemed to be more of a preferred walk on that could earn a schollie in 2011 if his health let him be the player he was prior to getting hurt.