Baseball strategy question...........

[MarkGrace]

From a baseball perspective there's no right answer to this and it would be tough to make a decision without more facts. Loading the bases is about infield alignment and reducing the inherent risk on a given play. You significantly lower the chances on something going wrong when 5 (1st, 2nd, SS, 3rd, Catcher) of your 8 primary defensive players (taking the pitcher out of the equation here) are in the position to make an unassisted putout on any ball that comes to them (outfielders can only do so on flyballs), especially on the left side of the infield. Additionally, you no longer force the left side of the infield to have to come up with the ball cleanly, which again increase your odds of making the out.

The other critical factor would be who's on the bump. Do you have a runk-and-sink guy? A guy who rides high in the zone? Since you're trying to keep the ball in the infield because that's where you've increased your odds of making the out by the greatest margin, obviously the former is the ideal situation. An additional consideration is that if you're looking for that run-and-sink, you're talking about throwing 2-seamers, and 2-steamers for most pitchers are more difficult to control. 4 seams has a truer rotation which makes it more predictable, but because of the backspin on it's an easier pitch for the hitter to lift. So you're putting more pressure on the pitcher to hit spots with a pitch that he's less likely to have great command of.

And of course you have to consider the hitter. Is he a guy who swings up through the zone and gets a natural lift (first hitter that comes to mind is Daryl Strawberry since his swing was so exaggerated that way)? Is he a down through the zone guy that's that's more likely to put it in play on the ground (like an Ichiro)?

In terms of the outfield, if you load them up, you're looking to play the lines because if you get beat down the line the game is over for sure. Since there's 2 outs and the 1st basemen isn't going to be holding (again, trying to shut down the infield), the runner at first is likely to score on a ball to the ball in the gap as well (and you've made the gaps wider by playing the sidelines), but you at least have some semblance of a chance of catching the last runner at home where you just don't if you get beat into a corner.

Anyway, fun question, which is why baseball is such a great game. In the end, I wouldn't hesitate to load up in most circumstances. With respect to softball, I have no idea what the answer would be. Don't care much for softball and have played it relatively few times. My inclination based on experience is to say that not enough outs are made in the infield (it's just way too easy to get lift on a softball, though I suppose the other side of that argument is that it makes it that much easier to get someone to flyout) to make this is a worthwhile strategy. But you guys can argue about that.

[Shaka]

How did I space off two threads about baseball, errrr softball strategy? Amazing what my apathy has done to me.

[jay santos]

Pitch 4: another 4 mph meatball that the batter crushes en route to scoring another 25 runs. Actually isn't this what actually happened in the game we are discussing? How many times does a batter strike out in slow pitch softball? It is so shockingly embarrassing that someone earlier said that it is the cardinal sin in men's softball.

I think the fundamental difference here is that you seem to be taking slow pitch softball seriously, at least the pitching component. EPU has played baseball, which is probably why he doesn't see much point in softball pitching strategy. I happen to agree with him but you are free to believe that the same pitchers that are giving up over 15 runs a game are also very skilled and strategic.

1. Pitch 4 doesn't happen. Three balls = walk in softball. At least in leagues I've played, and not that it matters, the point is the pitcher throws bad pitches until the batter chases one or walks.
2. Strikeout is a red herring. Called strike will never happen as all the pitches are outside the strike zone. A whiff shouldn't ever be expected. A strikeout on two foul balls is possible but chances are so low it's not considered in the equation. The outcome is either for batter to swing at pitch that's relatively difficult to hit hard or a walk.
3. We can forgive you for taking seriously the importance of matching your belt with your socks, so I'm sure you can forgive CJ and others in this thread who are taking seriously this softball question.

Anyone who's ever played softball should understand what I'm saying here. And this sort of thing happens every game. Most common example would be a batter hits a foul ball early in the count and pitcher throws him a couple crappy pitches hoping he chases one.

[TripletDaddy]

1. Pitch 4 doesn't happen. Three balls = walk in softball. At least in leagues I've played, and not that it matters, the point is the pitcher throws bad pitches until the batter chases one or walks.
2. Strikeout is a red herring. Called strike will never happen as all the pitches are outside the strike zone. A whiff shouldn't ever be expected. A strikeout on two foul balls is possible but chances are so low it's not considered in the equation. The outcome is either for batter to swing at pitch that's relatively difficult to hit hard or a walk.
3. We can forgive you for taking seriously the importance of matching your belt with your socks, so I'm sure you can forgive CJ and others in this thread who are taking seriously this softball question.

Anyone who's ever played softball should understand what I'm saying here. And this sort of thing happens every game. Most common example would be a batter hits a foul ball early in the count and pitcher throws him a couple crappy pitches hoping he chases one.

I appreciate and recognize your conciliatory tone. I think you had no choice but to throw up the flag once EPU and now MarkGrace, both ball players, independently agreed that pitching strategem in softball is mostly folly because pretty much everyone smashes the ball.

[jay santos]

I appreciate and recognize your conciliatory tone. I think you had no choice but to throw up the flag once EPU and now MarkGrace, both ball players, independently agreed that pitching strategem in softball is mostly folly because pretty much everyone smashes the ball.

Except it's too bad neither of them said that. And pitching strategem, to some degree, takes place in every competitive softball game that's ever played.

[filsdepac]

I appreciate and recognize your conciliatory tone. I think you had no choice but to throw up the flag once EPU and now MarkGrace, both ball players, independently agreed that pitching strategem in softball is mostly folly because pretty much everyone smashes the ball.

I wonder what CJ would say, surely you'd concede to his opinion?

[TripletDaddy]

I wonder what CJ would say, surely you'd concede to his opinion?

I already have. Go back and read his initial post. He is most interested in what EPU thinks.

[San Juan Sun]

Strange thread. It's all under the premise that baseball and slow-pitch softball are the same sport.

When I have questions about cricket or rounders strategy, I'll make sure to post them here.

[filsdepac]

I already have. Go back and read his initial post. He is most interested in what EPU thinks.

That's awesome that he's curious what Epu thinks, what does that prove? Ask him directly.

[jay santos]

DDD, one more time, even more slowly and clearly.

The proposed strategy is to throw bad pitches in order to tempt the batter to swing at a bad pitch and to be satisfied with walking him, if he doesn't.

If you're rejecting this as a valid strategy, I would think you're rejecting these two assumptions.

1. That softball pitches varying by location, can vary in difficulty to hit.

This seems rather easy to prove. Try hitting a pitch right down the middle of the strike zone. Now try hitting a pitch 20 feet outside. One is easy. The other is impossible. What about a pitch five feet outside? Two feet outside? Two feet outside and two feet short? Five feet over your head? Two feet over you heard? Two feet inside and face height? Rather easy to illustrate that by varying the location of the pitch, we can vary the difficulty to hit.

2. That no batter would ever swing at a pitch that's not a strike, that's difficult to hit.

This is certainly more difficult to prove. But I believe most people who have ever paid attention to a softball game would say they have observed this. In fact, the odds might increase for a young kid a year out of high school, as is the case in this hypo.

[TripletDaddy]

DDD, one more time, even more slowly and clearly.

The proposed strategy is to throw bad pitches in order to tempt the batter to swing at a bad pitch and to be satisfied with walking him, if he doesn't.

If you're rejecting this as a valid strategy, I would think you're rejecting these two assumptions.

1. That softball pitches varying by location, can vary in difficulty to hit.

This seems rather easy to prove. Try hitting a pitch right down the middle of the strike zone. Now try hitting a pitch 20 feet outside. One is easy. The other is impossible. What about a pitch five feet outside? Two feet outside? Two feet outside and two feet short? Five feet over your head? Two feet over you heard? Two feet inside and face height? Rather easy to illustrate that by varying the location of the pitch, we can vary the difficulty to hit.

2. That no batter would ever swing at a pitch that's not a strike, that's difficult to hit.

This is certainly more difficult to prove. But I believe most people who have ever paid attention to a softball game would say they have observed this. In fact, the odds might increase for a young kid a year out of high school, as is the case in this hypo.

Fair point. Now please explain how the run totals in slow pitch are so high. Why are so many batters making contact and scoring runs if the pitching is so skillful?

It is interesting that in junkies original post, he doesn't even consider pitching to be a potential solution to the third out. He presupposes that both batters would make contact with the ball. His question is whether the team should have gone for the force at any base after the second batter inevitably smashes the ball or whether they should have simply allowed the first batter to smash the ball and hope that they could field it in time and make a play. Why not try to strike out the batter and not worry about the open base? Well, because pitchers generally can't strike out batters in slow pitch softball. It is the cardinal sin to strike out in slow pitch softball, a huge shameful failure.

I didn't know you played softball, btw.

[jay santos]

Fair point. Now please explain how the run totals in slow pitch are so high. Why are so many batters making contact and scoring runs if the pitching is so skillful?

Let me answer your question with a question. What would the score be if the pitcher took this strategy with every batter?

[filsdepac]

The common perception is that pitchers lob the ball over the plate and that the defense will do the job and hold the batter to a single or double. However, a good slow-pitch pitcher will use the batter's aggressiveness against him and find a way to get a great hitter out in a crucial situation. It's not about shutting opponents out and dominating a lineup. It's about getting batters out at the key moments.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/96...pitching-tips/

Don't worry DDD, it's a common perception.

Here's some more info to help people joining leagues this summer:

http://www.softball-leagues.com/stra...hing-strategy/

[TripletDaddy]

The common perception is that pitchers lob the ball over the plate and that the defense will do the job and hold the batter to a single or double. However, a good slow-pitch pitcher will use the batter's aggressiveness against him and find a way to get a great hitter out in a crucial situation. It's not about shutting opponents out and dominating a lineup. It's about getting batters out at the key moments.

lol. Combined score: more than 40 runs.

The last sentence is the funniest. You know when it is a key moment? When the next hit you give up is going to result in a run. After giving up 15-20 runs, my guess is that they key moment has passed.

I didn't know we had so many serious softball players on this board beyond just KatyLied.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

.I didn't know we had so many serious softball players on this board beyond just KatyLied.

Was it ever resolved how serious KL's family took their softball game and did they get to use the close chapel?