"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[MarkGrace]

Hayward shouldn't be good, but he is. He just gets it. He understands how to play the game. He's a competitor. Plays both ends. If he isn't yet, he'll be a guy who gets to the FT line.

Not to nitpick since I know you're giving the guy props, but this is where I've never seen whatever it is that you guys see. Why shouldn't he be good? He's got good size for a wing, a good looking stroke, a great handle, good hops, a good first step, sees the floor well, etc. I stated even when he was struggling that to me his problems were never physical, they were always mental. In my mind he's always had good physical talent.

What's funny is that I've argued in favor of Hayward's athleticism this year -- and Cole Aldrich last year -- and always felt a lot of the feeling about these guys relative lack of athleticism was mostly white stigma. Now I find myself on the other side of that with Jimmer. CB is constantly making comments about how Jimmer's draft stock is only low because he's white, but in Jimmer's case I actually see the questionable athleticism that people talk about. Feels odd to be on the other side of this argument.

[Surfah]

Holy shit, the Jazz won last night? I missed the game.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Derrick Favors has fouled out of ONE game this season. He's ended with five fouls a lot, especially earlier in the year, and would have fouled out of many more games if given the minutes. But how about we quit worrying about his foul count so much and make sure he plays as many minutes as possible every game? I know, a little late in the game to care about this, but last night was the first time he has ever logged 30+ minutes in an NBA game, even though he hasn't picked up 5 fouls in a game since March 11.

The kid has never played 30 minutes and put up less than a double-double.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Not to nitpick since I know you're giving the guy props, but this is where I've never seen whatever it is that you guys see. Why shouldn't he be good? He's got good size for a wing, a good looking stroke, a great handle, good hops, a good first step, sees the floor well, etc. I stated even when he was struggling that to me his problems were never physical, they were always mental. In my mind he's always had good physical talent.

What's funny is that I've argued in favor of Hayward's athleticism this year -- and Cole Aldrich last year -- and always felt a lot of the feeling about these guys relative lack of athleticism was mostly white stigma. Now I find myself on the other side of that with Jimmer. CB is constantly making comments about how Jimmer's draft stock is only low because he's white, but in Jimmer's case I actually see the questionable athleticism that people talk about. Feels odd to be on the other side of this argument.

Personally, I think the reason we're seeing such good play from Hayward right now is because he spent so much of the season playing behind Raja Bell. It worked for Deron, right?

[MarkGrace]

But besides putting the ball on the floor, they're practically identical.

Eh. Players are always comparing guys to other players, but no comparison is going to be perfect. Thorpe did his article the other day about which veterans the rookies should be watching, and there he compared Hayward to Afflalo. At the time I said I remembered reading another comparison that I thought was better than Afflalo, though I couldn't remember who it was. BGR posted some quotes from an article yesterday, and a quote from Watson reminded of who that player was:

He has underestimated athletic ability. He's really athletic. He has a (Manu) Ginobili-like quickness to him.

That's who it was. There was an article earlier in the season where a lot of his teammates said he really reminded them of Ginobili, and they thought he should spend a lot of time studying Manu's game.

Horny, Afflalo, Ginobili...I see the little comparisons people have made to each.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Holy shit, the Jazz won last night? I missed the game.

Yeah, in the Staples Center. I had to rub my eyes a few times when I picked up the sports section this morning.

[Surfah]

Yeah, in the Staples Center. I had to rub my eyes a few times when I picked up the sports section this morning.

Yeah I only got 4 hours of sleep the night before up with a feverish baby so I went to bed early last night.

[MarkGrace]

Amazing. Hayward owned the 4th quarter. When was the last time we ran a 2 man game from the wing? Successfully? Lakers went from Brown to Artest to Kobe to try and stop Hayward, and nobody could stop him from driving, dishing, and scoring. Not to mention the defense. For one day, it was fun to be a Jazz fan.

I see a lot of "Jazz need a shooter, so Jimmer makes sense" arguments these days, though I've always felt that was way too simplistic and a bit overstated. It's always nice to have a shooter at the point, don't get me wrong, but in the Jazz system the point is not a floor spacer since in about every set he's the guy keying the offense. It certainly helps to be a shooting threat when making entry passes to prevent the double-down, and of course it helps in SnR situations, but the space the wings provide is always more critical. If you're going to be a floor spacer from the point a la Kerr or Fisher, then it has to be in instances where you're running side SnR's with your wing. Watching Hayward run those plays last night was the first time I thought "hmm...Jimmer as shooter on the Jazz makes a bit more sense."

[MarkGrace]

Derrick Favors has fouled out of ONE game this season. He's ended with five fouls a lot, especially earlier in the year, and would have fouled out of many more games if given the minutes. But how about we quit worrying about his foul count so much and make sure he plays as many minutes as possible every game? I know, a little late in the game to care about this, but last night was the first time he has ever logged 30+ minutes in an NBA game, even though he hasn't picked up 5 fouls in a game since March 11.

As Jacob pointed out, his seems to have this pattern where he fouls quickly in his first stint on the floor, but then does a better job after that. I swear every single night he picks up two fouls in his first 5-7 mins, and then ends the game with about 4 in 25 mins or so.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Eh. Players are always comparing guys to other players, but no comparison is going to be perfect. Thorpe did his article the other day about which veterans the rookies should be watching, and there he compared Hayward to Afflalo. At the time I said I remembered reading another comparison that I thought was better than Afflalo, though I couldn't remember who it was. BGR posted some quotes from an article yesterday, and a quote from Watson reminded of who that player was:



That's who it was. There was an article earlier in the season where a lot of his teammates said he really reminded them of Ginobili, and they thought he should spend a lot of time studying Manu's game.

Horny, Afflalo, Ginobili...I see the little comparisons people have made to each.

How did I read that article and not see that Ginobli quote? That's a pretty good comp.

I think before the draft I said I thought Stephen Jackson could be a decent comparison for Hayward. Jackson is someone that I see as being comfortable anywhere on offense: outside shooting, face up, initiating the offense, or playing with his back to the basket at times. And he's got enough athleticism that he can really finish (or at least he could earlier in his career) at the rim well. Hayward lacks the strength to be able to play with is back to the basket much right now but he does have that in his game. And his defense has been much better (again, just lacking strength right now) than I could have imagined.

[TripletDaddy]

meh.

Lakers have more championships, MVPs, etc.

[MarkGrace]

How did I read that article and not see that Ginobli quote? That's a pretty good comp.

Someone posted this on JH's a while back:

Coming home from the Cleveland game, Locke on the radio talked about Gordon and how his teammates feel about him. He said to a man, they all think Hayward is going to be very good.

The shocker though? At least to me. Locke said that one player had told Gordon to watch every bit of film he could get his hands on of Manu Ginobli because he thinks G-Hay can be that kind of player.

After Watson's comment yesterday, he's probably the guy Locke was referring to.

[LiveCoug]

meh.

Lakers have more championships, MVPs, etc.

How many Northwest Division championships do you guys have? That's right, none, so I suggest you shut yer mouth.

[TripletDaddy]

How many Northwest Division championships do you guys have? That's right, none, so I suggest you shut yer mouth.

[MarkGrace]

Since the AS break G-Hay is shooting 53% from 3, and 57% from the FT line.