BYU women's volleyball - 2022

[smokymountainrain]

Is it possible people yelling "cougar" was misinterpreted as a the N word?

i had that thought. very much possible, tbh.

[RC Vikings]

I can't imagine any gym in this country, even in a high school gym in the most raciest part of north Idaho, could someone yell the n word over and over again and it wouldn't be stopped by those around them. Just seems like something like this wouldn't happen.

[Donuthole]

I thought this when I first heard the story, but before I ever posted anything, further details had come out indicating that they found the offender and addressed it. But when I first heard the Duke vball story, I remembered an incident a few years back at our local YMCA where my son plays in a rec basketball league. One of the kids on my son's team was a bit oafish--slow, but ok coordination and like 6-8" taller than most other kids in the league. Luke, his name was, would get put in at center, and his dad was constantly trying to get him to put his hands up and use his size and length on defense. In practices, the coaches would work with Luke on getting good position and then standing with his arms straight up and down. When he did, this was usually enough to stymie all but the best players in the league. Sometimes Luke would forget and would try to get down low and steal the ball from the dribbler, which almost always resulted in the player getting by him and either a) scoring or b) Luke being out of position to rebound a miss.

So Luke's dad would remind him, from the stands to "Be Bigger! Bigger!" which eventually morphed into his dad yelling "Bigger, Luke, Bigger." You don't have to be Nostradamus to see how this came to a head when we played a team full of black kids. When we beat them, there were aspersions cast that our fans had been calling the other team racial slurs and there was a big kerfuffle. Forgunately, we had a couple of black kids on our team and their parents verified that this had been going on all season (and in practices) and that the word being yelled was "bigger".

I'm not saying anyone at BYU was yelling "bigger" because that wouldn't make sense. But in a place that loud, if you were predisposed to hear something (Like, if your godmother had an agenda against conservative institutions and had primed you that you would be going into the lion's den, where they were going to call you all sorts of awful things) I could see the player thinking she heard something that wasn't actually said. That, to me, seems way more likely than someone yelling the n-word repeatedly, and not a soul being willing to step up and identify the offender. That, to me, is the least likely scenario of all.

[Bo Diddley]

I thought this when I first heard the story, but before I ever posted anything, further details had come out indicating that they found the offender and addressed it. But when I first heard the Duke vball story, I remembered an incident a few years back at our local YMCA where my son plays in a rec basketball league. One of the kids on my son's team was a bit oafish--slow, but ok coordination and like 6-8" taller than most other kids in the league. Luke, his name was, would get put in at center, and his dad was constantly trying to get him to put his hands up and use his size and length on defense. In practices, the coaches would work with Luke on getting good position and then standing with his arms straight up and down. When he did, this was usually enough to stymie all but the best players in the league. Sometimes Luke would forget and would try to get down low and steal the ball from the dribbler, which almost always resulted in the player getting by him and either a) scoring or b) Luke being out of position to rebound a miss.

So Luke's dad would remind him, from the stands to "Be Bigger! Bigger!" which eventually morphed into his dad yelling "Bigger, Luke, Bigger." You don't have to be Nostradamus to see how this came to a head when we played a team full of black kids. When we beat them, there were aspersions cast that our fans had been calling the other team racial slurs and there was a big kerfuffle. Forgunately, we had a couple of black kids on our team and their parents verified that this had been going on all season (and in practices) and that the word being yelled was "bigger".

I'm not saying anyone at BYU was yelling "bigger" because that wouldn't make sense. But in a place that loud, if you were predisposed to hear something (Like, if your godmother had an agenda against conservative institutions and had primed you that you would be going into the lion's den, where they were going to call you all sorts of awful things) I could see the player thinking she heard something that wasn't actually said. That, to me, seems way more likely than someone yelling the n-word repeatedly, and not a soul being willing to step up and identify the offender. That, to me, is the least likely scenario of all.

Was his last name Worthington?

[BigPiney]

Was his last name Worthington?

[Uncle Ted]

I can't imagine any gym in this country, even in a high school gym in the most raciest part of north Idaho, could someone yell the n word over and over again and it wouldn't be stopped by those around them. Just seems like something like this wouldn't happen.

Yeah, that wouldn't even happen in Texas... the racist dude would have been dragged out into the street and beat. Maybe Utah is just full of racist people.

[smokymountainrain]

Was his last name Worthington?

[Goatnapper'96]

Here's GM's take (warning: I will double down)

My daughter did a study abroad program in Singapore this summer with Penn State and the state school in Singapore. The Penn State kids berated the BYU students on a couple of occasions over race-related issues. They were aware of BYU due to a group that is active on TikTok called the Black Menaces. They interview BYU students on race-related issues and post some of the ridiculous answers (and the more sane answers) on TikTok.

I think it's possible that the young woman subjectively heard what she claims she heard AND that it wasn't said by the fan(s). If she was aware of the Black Menaces, it's entirely possible that she was primed and ready to be accosted by a bunch of ignorant white kids, and in the midst of a screaming student section, she actually believes she heard the word. When she was called out by name by fans (which the police said happened), it ended up feeling very personal.

I'm not saying there are no racists at BYU, but I'd be very surprised if one person, let alone a group (as godmother is claiming), were chanting racial slurs and threatening the black players' well being.

I don't know why folks have to say "I'm not saying there are no racists at BYU....."

It appears that the evidence indicates, so far, that there were no racial comments at the last volleyball game vs Duke. So I think folks can just comment on that without having to qualify that, despite the lack of evidence, they are still open to there being racists to make sure they are "believing victims" or whatever it is that makes our civilization unwilling to initially question the veracity of racism accusations. I thought even BYU wasn't measured enough in its initial response-I think the actions BYU took was just what should have been but I think Holmoe probably could have been more measured and saying something like a coach after a loss: "I gotta look at the tape and figure out what the facts really are before I add to an emotionally charged event."

I think the young lady heard exactly what she wanted/expected to hear, although I don't believe it was actually said. I do wonder how much we are all like her.

[Donuthole]

I don't know why folks have to say "I'm not saying there are no racists at BYU....."

It appears that the evidence indicates, so far, that there were no racial comments at the last volleyball game vs Duke. So I think folks can just comment on that without having to qualify that, despite the lack of evidence, they are still open to there being racists to make sure they are "believing victims" or whatever it is that makes our civilization unwilling to initially question the veracity of racism accusations. I thought even BYU wasn't measured enough in its initial response-I think the actions BYU took was just what should have been but I think Holmoe probably could have been more measured and saying something like a coach after a loss: "I gotta look at the tape and figure out what the facts really are before I add to an emotionally charged event."

I think the young lady heard exactly what she wanted/expected to hear, although I don't believe it was actually said. I do wonder how much we are all like her.

Yeah, I think that's a good approach for a coach, but not necessarily for an AD on a pretty politically charged issue. That makes it sound like they are going back to look for ways to disprove the allegations, rather than going back to objectively see what happened. I have zero problem with how Holmoe has addressed this, and I have no problem with him with erring on the side of the potential aggrieved until more is known.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yeah, I think that's a good approach for a coach, but not necessarily for an AD on a pretty politically charged issue. That makes it sound like they are going back to look for ways to disprove the allegations, rather than going back to objectively see what happened. I have zero problem with how Holmoe has addressed this, and I have no problem with him with erring on the side of the potential aggrieved until more is known.

Let’s remember that he was navigating this in real time. He was in a very tough spot.

[Goatnapper'96]

Yeah, I think that's a good approach for a coach, but not necessarily for an AD on a pretty politically charged issue. That makes it sound like they are going back to look for ways to disprove the allegations, rather than going back to objectively see what happened. I have zero problem with how Holmoe has addressed this, and I have no problem with him with erring on the side of the potential aggrieved until more is known.

You are right in how Holmoe handled it-he has no choice. As the AD of a major college sports program that recruits African-Americans his first role is to make sure BYU appears as "safe" as it can be-especially given the LDS Church's history with institutional racism.

The facts of the case will come out in time but in the moment damage control was the 50 meter target.

[PaloAltoCougar]

You are right in how Holmoe handled it-he has no choice. As the AD of a major college sports program that recruits African-Americans his first role is to make sure BYU appears as "safe" as it can be-especially given the LDS Church's history with institutional racism.

The facts of the case will come out in time but in the moment damage control was the 50 meter target.

Agreed.

With respect to the bolded observation, I've been thinking for quite a while now about whether and how the Church should more formally address, and even apologize for, its racist past. I'm very happy with and proud of how President Nelson and the Church are connecting with the black community, but I think the shadow of what was taught by Church leaders and teachers for over a century continues to loom over our culture and inhibits our growth in the black community. I hope that shadow will eventually disappear, but I think addressing it now, clearly and forcefully, would be a good thing. I realize this is a thread detour--perhaps I'll start a thread to more fully address this.

[jay santos]

Can anyone make sense of this?

Police talked to the man, who was a Utah Valley University student, and he denied shouting any slurs, saying the only thing he yelled was that the players “shouldn’t hit the ball into the net.” He admitted approaching the Duke player after the match, thinking she was a friend of his who played for BYU.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nca...63145198be9b32

[Donuthole]

Can anyone make sense of this?


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nca...63145198be9b32

I think the "don't hit it into the net" makes sense. I've heard that taunt before at high school games when a player previously served into the net. The "thinking she was a friend of his that played for BYU" thing makes less sense. Much less sense. But that doesn't mean he called her the n word.

[LiveCoug]

I thought this when I first heard the story, but before I ever posted anything, further details had come out indicating that they found the offender and addressed it. But when I first heard the Duke vball story, I remembered an incident a few years back at our local YMCA where my son plays in a rec basketball league. One of the kids on my son's team was a bit oafish--slow, but ok coordination and like 6-8" taller than most other kids in the league. Luke, his name was, would get put in at center, and his dad was constantly trying to get him to put his hands up and use his size and length on defense. In practices, the coaches would work with Luke on getting good position and then standing with his arms straight up and down. When he did, this was usually enough to stymie all but the best players in the league. Sometimes Luke would forget and would try to get down low and steal the ball from the dribbler, which almost always resulted in the player getting by him and either a) scoring or b) Luke being out of position to rebound a miss.

So Luke's dad would remind him, from the stands to "Be Bigger! Bigger!" which eventually morphed into his dad yelling "Bigger, Luke, Bigger." You don't have to be Nostradamus to see how this came to a head when we played a team full of black kids. When we beat them, there were aspersions cast that our fans had been calling the other team racial slurs and there was a big kerfuffle. Forgunately, we had a couple of black kids on our team and their parents verified that this had been going on all season (and in practices) and that the word being yelled was "bigger".

I'm not saying anyone at BYU was yelling "bigger" because that wouldn't make sense. But in a place that loud, if you were predisposed to hear something (Like, if your godmother had an agenda against conservative institutions and had primed you that you would be going into the lion's den, where they were going to call you all sorts of awful things) I could see the player thinking she heard something that wasn't actually said. That, to me, seems way more likely than someone yelling the n-word repeatedly, and not a soul being willing to step up and identify the offender. That, to me, is the least likely scenario of all.

I went ahead and clicked the thumbs up like button.