BYU Basketball 2016-2017

[Topper]

The most disturbing thing about last night was that the effort looked poor. St. Mary's really has our number.

At the end of this dreadful season, watching a lack of effort and attention to detail is frustrating. SMC dissected BYU like a freshman dissects his first frog, full of joy and making sure that no vital organ goes untouched.

Not all shots can go in. Not all rebounds can be pulled in. But you can work until you drop. It is as if they players don't care, even though I have to believe they do care. I see about four or five scholarship worthy players, in Mika, Childs, Bryant, and Haws. Emery is a bench player and Dastrup may become a scholarship worthy player if he gets in shape. The remainder of the players are not scholarship worthy. No new blood coming in for next year that we know of.

[San Juan Sun]

Meh, not a great season but not a bad season. I was expecting to see SMC kill us and it obviously happened.

Bottom line is we need to get better defensively, and figure out how to move the ball on offense. Lots of talent and youth on this team, and I think the future is bright. I still think Rose is a good coach, and I think he will have the chance this summer really effect some change.

[Topper]

Meh, not a great season but not a bad season. I was expecting to see SMC kill us and it obviously happened.

Bottom line is we need to get better defensively, and figure out how to move the ball on offense. Lots of talent and youth on this team, and I think the future is bright. I still think Rose is a good coach, and I think he will have the chance this summer really effect some change.

I agree with much of what you wrote, but I don't see the "lots of talent." I see Mika, Childs, maybe Haws, Bryant and maybe Dastrup being talented. The rest is garden variety filler. Rose is a good coach and the losses of Davis and Rose harmed the team, but I don't see the talent rolling in next year to make up for a clear deficit of talent at the guard line.

[bluegoose]

Frustrating game and disappointing season, so I get the angst. But there is still plenty to be optimistic about, imo. Our starting 5 is overall as athletic and talented as we've seen in a number of years. They're still really young, in college basketball years, and have a lot to learn. But look at the progress that the guys have individually made this season.

Mika was a terribly inconsistent hothead his freshman year - now he's 1st team all conference and a potential draft pick in the next couple of years.
Haws was in terrible basketball shape to start the season and had awful range from the outside. Now, he is still occasionally out of control and tries to do too much with play-making, but he has played well recently and is shooting the ball much better lately.
I doubt buy that Emery has hit his ceiling. I saw him score nearly 40 points last season in back to back games in the Bay Area. He absolutely dominated both games. His judgement needs some work, but he is still only a sophomore.
I admit I was a bit down on Bryant at the start of the season, but he has really grown on me. There is a lot in his game that I like. Like others have said, I'm not sure what his role is going to be on the team.
I love me some Yo Childs. incredible improvement from the start of the season. Couldn't walk through the tunnel without picking up two fouls early on this year.

Last night there was one rotation where I believe we had Leifson, Beo, Dastrup, Guinn, and Braiden Shaw all on the court at the same time. God love em, but ouch.

I think the nucleus of the team will be in good shape moving forward next year. Depth is still going to be a huge problem for the next year or two. Hopefully they can bring in some JC or graduate transfer help this off-season.

I'm still firmly on the Cougar hoops train!!!

[Bigfoot is Cain]

Now that we've had a few hours to be disgusted, I had a realization. Mika, Haws, and Emery all got married before the season.

mickey.jpg

Isn't it common knowledge that the the first year of marriage is the worst for sapping leg strength and endurance? At least this is true for many Mormons who are like a camel reaching a river after crossing a vast desert. But next year, just wait, next year Mika, Haws, and Emery will have their camel humps full and they will be ready to reach their full potential.

[Crockett]

Now that we've had a few hours to be disgusted, I had a realization. Mika, Haws, and Emery all got married before the season.

[ATTACH]7797[/ATTACH]

Isn't it common knowledge that the the first year of marriage is the worst for sapping leg strength and endurance? At least this is true for many Mormons who are like a camel reaching a river after crossing a vast desert. But next year, just wait, next year Mika, Haws, and Emery will have their camel humps full and they will be ready to reach their full potential.

Thank you for this insightful analysis.

[Topper]

Thank you for this insightful analysis.

What else could you expect from a mythical monster?

[cougjunkie]

This team is not going to improve until roles have been defined.

Nick Emerys FGA to start the year: 14,8,12,9,16,28,15,17,9,15,15,7,12. Then Dave Rose got after him and told him he needed to be a better defender and be the defensive stopper this team needs. He went ape shit against Santa Clara only took 7 shots, but he held Brownridge to 2-8 shooting and 8 points, next game he scores 20 against Loyola going 5-11 from deep and holds Brown to 8 points on 2-8. You start thinking he has found his role on this team, a spot up shooter and lock down defender. Similar to his bro. This was great when we won those first two games in his new role, then the first beat down from St. Marys happens. He struggled with Rahon and Naar, he only took 8 shots and we lose big. He hung on to his new role for the next two games, Has decent outings with 12 and 20 points. But still a 3rd/4th option with Bryant getting healthy. And then you see his body language change, he starts passing up open looks just to be a dick, goes several possessions without a touch he forces up a bad shot, he stops playing defense. And Rose essentially benches him for long stretches (gets Tooblue wet). His FGA over this stretch 7,7,7,6,8,6,6. 3 of those games he was 1-6 shooting, had 3 of them where he went 3-7 and a 3-8. Not a good showing at all. After the pepperdine loss he decided he didn't give a shit, shooters gonna shoot. Finishes the season going 1-9, 8-12, 2-10, 6-12, 2-11, 5-7, 0-7. He never fully embraced his role on this team, shoots 41% from the floor and 35% from three on the season, both numbers down from last year. He also took 130 fewer shots and played 200 fewer minutes. Every statistical category was worse than his freshman year (turnovers up, assits, ft%, rebounding, scoring, all down)

Haws- TJ took over the full time point guard duties halfway through the first game against the Zags. He scored 29 in that game as the lone bright spot. He scored double figures in 9 of the last 10 games while shooting 41% from three. TJ needs to run the point on this team, but able to hid that open three off the Mika kick out. He has that ability, he has needs to pick his spots on when he breaks down the defense. He forces to many shots and can be out of control. The wrap around and behind the head pass are cool once. But lets put that to bed, especially when you try throwing it to Corbin. Who if he does catch it, won't do anything with it anyways.

Mika- The offense needs to continue to flow through Mika. He averaged 20 and 9 as the focal point of the offense, he faced constant double teams, and had every thing imaginable thrown at him. I wish his shooting percentage were a big higher for a big, but 52.6% is respectable considering the difficulty of his shots. The only problem with Mika is that he needs to recognize where the double team is coming from and kick it out more for the open shot. With that being said, if we are not knocking down those shots the defense just collapses. St. Marys had 5 guys with a foot in the paint daring BYU to shoot the three.

YO- He is not going to be the focal point of the offense until Mika leaves if ever. However he can easily average 12 and 10 just off hustle plays and timely cuts when other teams monster Mika. He needs to watch tape of Johnathan Williams, he didn't have a single play ran for him all year and finished with 10 per game. Yo is more skilled offensively so his ceiling his higher. Williams shot 41% his last year at Mizzou as the primary big. This year with the Zags he shot 60% playing off Karnowski. Yo can do the same thing playing off Mika.

Bryant- When healthy he looked like the dynamic scorer we all thought he could be. He is still out of control at times, and he needs to pick and choose his spots. I would like to see him post up smaller guards more often, shoot the three more consistently, and play more in control. He is a great 2nd/3rd option on this team playing off of TJ.

If these guys can embrace their roles and not all want to dominate the shots and the ball. They have potential to be a great team. Tim Lacomb said they are recruiting heavily internationally right now to add some depth.

[Topper]

This team is not going to improve until roles have been defined.

Nick Emerys FGA to start the year: 14,8,12,9,16,28,15,17,9,15,15,7,12. Then Dave Rose got after him and told him he needed to be a better defender and be the defensive stopper this team needs. He went ape shit against Santa Clara only took 7 shots, but he held Brownridge to 2-8 shooting and 8 points, next game he scores 20 against Loyola going 5-11 from deep and holds Brown to 8 points on 2-8. You start thinking he has found his role on this team, a spot up shooter and lock down defender. Similar to his bro. This was great when we won those first two games in his new role, then the first beat down from St. Marys happens. He struggled with Rahon and Naar, he only took 8 shots and we lose big. He hung on to his new role for the next two games, Has decent outings with 12 and 20 points. But still a 3rd/4th option with Bryant getting healthy. And then you see his body language change, he starts passing up open looks just to be a dick, goes several possessions without a touch he forces up a bad shot, he stops playing defense. And Rose essentially benches him for long stretches (gets Tooblue wet). His FGA over this stretch 7,7,7,6,8,6,6. 3 of those games he was 1-6 shooting, had 3 of them where he went 3-7 and a 3-8. Not a good showing at all. After the pepperdine loss he decided he didn't give a shit, shooters gonna shoot. Finishes the season going 1-9, 8-12, 2-10, 6-12, 2-11, 5-7, 0-7. He never fully embraced his role on this team, shoots 41% from the floor and 35% from three on the season, both numbers down from last year. He also took 130 fewer shots and played 200 fewer minutes. Every statistical category was worse than his freshman year (turnovers up, assits, ft%, rebounding, scoring, all down)

Haws- TJ took over the full time point guard duties halfway through the first game against the Zags. He scored 29 in that game as the lone bright spot. He scored double figures in 9 of the last 10 games while shooting 41% from three. TJ needs to run the point on this team, but able to hid that open three off the Mika kick out. He has that ability, he has needs to pick his spots on when he breaks down the defense. He forces to many shots and can be out of control. The wrap around and behind the head pass are cool once. But lets put that to bed, especially when you try throwing it to Corbin. Who if he does catch it, won't do anything with it anyways.

Mika- The offense needs to continue to flow through Mika. He averaged 20 and 9 as the focal point of the offense, he faced constant double teams, and had every thing imaginable thrown at him. I wish his shooting percentage were a big higher for a big, but 52.6% is respectable considering the difficulty of his shots. The only problem with Mika is that he needs to recognize where the double team is coming from and kick it out more for the open shot. With that being said, if we are not knocking down those shots the defense just collapses. St. Marys had 5 guys with a foot in the paint daring BYU to shoot the three.

YO- He is not going to be the focal point of the offense until Mika leaves if ever. However he can easily average 12 and 10 just off hustle plays and timely cuts when other teams monster Mika. He needs to watch tape of Johnathan Williams, he didn't have a single play ran for him all year and finished with 10 per game. Yo is more skilled offensively so his ceiling his higher. Williams shot 41% his last year at Mizzou as the primary big. This year with the Zags he shot 60% playing off Karnowski. Yo can do the same thing playing off Mika.

Bryant- When healthy he looked like the dynamic scorer we all thought he could be. He is still out of control at times, and he needs to pick and choose his spots. I would like to see him post up smaller guards more often, shoot the three more consistently, and play more in control. He is a great 2nd/3rd option on this team playing off of TJ.

If these guys can embrace their roles and not all want to dominate the shots and the ball. They have potential to be a great team. Tim Lacomb said they are recruiting heavily internationally right now to add some depth.

Interesting data points.

I am interested to see what they can find internationally. Brazil was once a play we found some gems.

Emery worries me that he won't accept his role, as he seems to have an attitude problem with the potential of being a cancer.

[KillerDog]

I heard someone say the problem is Rose can't take players out for screwing up and taking ill advised shots, turnovers or poor defense. He has no bench.

Is that as reasonable take?

There's some truth there. Also, his expectations for the team and how to best help them improve often differs from the fans. I go with his approach over my own. He has earned the right to continue to get 20 win seasons without me second guessing him. I've been wrong too often.

[KillerDog]

At the end of this dreadful season, watching a lack of effort and attention to detail is frustrating. SMC dissected BYU like a freshman dissects his first frog, full of joy and making sure that no vital organ goes untouched.

Not all shots can go in. Not all rebounds can be pulled in. But you can work until you drop. It is as if they players don't care, even though I have to believe they do care. I see about four or five scholarship worthy players, in Mika, Childs, Bryant, and Haws. Emery is a bench player and Dastrup may become a scholarship worthy player if he gets in shape. The remainder of the players are not scholarship worthy. No new blood coming in for next year that we know of.

Your ability to evaluate talent doesn't have a lot of weight behind it. A Rose scholarship offer bumps a player a full star. I'll reserve judgment until Dave tells me what my judgment should be.

[Topper]

Your ability to evaluate talent doesn't have a lot of weight behind it. A Rose scholarship offer bumps a player a full star. I'll reserve judgment until Dave tells me what my judgment should be.

Just a fan with an opinion, but last night's game with SMC made the line up of everybody not named Mika, Childs, Haws, Bryant and maybe Emery (who looked awful) to be outclassed. I am reserving judgment on Dastrup given his pre-mission credentials.

I've not seen anything out Beo, Liefson, Guinn, Shaw and others to make me hope they start, but I would love for these kids to prove me wrong and see the team come roaring through the conference next season to an Elite Eight appearance.

[KillerDog]

Just a fan with an opinion, but last night's game with SMC made the line up of everybody not named Mika, Childs, Haws, Bryant and maybe Emery (who looked awful) to be outclassed. I am reserving judgment on Dastrup given his pre-mission credentials.

I've not seen anything out Beo, Liefson, Guinn, Shaw and others to make me hope they start, but I would love for these kids to prove me wrong and see the team come roaring through the conference next season to an Elite Eight appearance.

Your problem is expectation. You want second tier kids to play like 1st tier kids. I would like that too but I don't expect it. The current classes of freshmen and sophomores wouldn't be elite 8 next year without missions. Missions kill. I expect them to make the tournament and show well but lose first round next year. That doesn't mean they are sub-par D-1 talent. That's top 20% in college hoop. It's the equivalent of a top a top 25 finish in football. Adjust to reasonable expectations and you will feel better.

[Topper]

Your problem is expectation. You want second tier kids to play like 1st tier kids. I would like that too but I don't expect it. The current classes of freshmen and sophomores wouldn't be elite 8 next year without missions. Missions kill. I expect them to make the tournament and show well but lose first round next year. That doesn't mean they are sub-par D-1 talent. That's top 20% in college hoop. It's the equivalent of a top a top 25 finish in football. Adjust to reasonable expectations and you will feel better.

I don't expect an Elite Eight finish, as BYU has one in its history. Right now, I barely expect this group to make the Tournament. It will be better than this year but it won't feel that great.

[Moliere]

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