Important Question, will the 11-12 Utes be as bad as the 1-25 Ingle Warriors

[Top Ute]

I agree with this. BITF's point, I think, is that JB couldn't seem to execute as HC. Lots of lawyers, for example, know the law cold but just aren't good at thinking on their feet or speaking in public. Those are separate skills, just as being head coach is. Knowledge is only the beginning.

To further elaborate, there's basketball as sport, and there's basketball as a game. Elite status in the former is built on acquired knowledge; in the latter, it requires an applied skill that is almost impossible to define.

It's how someone like Majerus could be a coaching genius, despite the fact that his skills as a player were mediocre.

[Flattop]

I agree with this. BITF's point, I think, is that JB couldn't seem to execute as HC. Lots of lawyers, for example, know the law cold but just aren't good at thinking on their feet or speaking in public. Those are separate skills, just as being head coach is. Knowledge is only the beginning.

I would still argue that the first two years demonstrated some coaching ability. At the very least, he got more out of Green, Borah and Neville than his predecessor had.

Where it seems to have fallen apart is in the rebuilding and implementation of his system. There were many recruiting errors and gambles, and his players just did not seem able to grasp and execute his system.

[Mr. Crimson]

I would still argue that the first two years demonstrated some coaching ability. At the very least, he got more out of Green, Borah and Neville than his predecessor had.

Where it seems to have fallen apart is in the rebuilding and implementation of his system. There were many recruiting errors and gambles, and his players just did not seem able to grasp and execute his system.

And you would be right to argue that. Ute fans have to work very hard to rewrite history about that first team to make Boylen seem incompetent. They forget how Borha and Green weren't D1 material (according to Ute fans) and Nevill was soft and worthless. Now it seems they were all world beaters only held back by Boylen.

What I really don't get is what Ute fans thought they'd see in year three, that year was clearly going to be a rebuild on any level considering how much scoring and rebounding we lost.

Then he makes mistakes and does a nice job correcting them and Ute fans are mad about that. It just seems there was no actual action Boylen could take to make Ute fans happy.

I've also heard a story that after year three, Hill told Boylen he had two more years. And the way Boylen recruited that makes sense. It also makes sense that if Hill was only giving Boylen one more year, that he'd just have fired him after year three because no way was everything going to be better in a year and lord knows Larry was available.. So its clear Hill lied to Boylen.

[LA Ute]

I've also heard a story that after year three, Hill told Boylen he had two more years. And the way Boylen recruited that makes sense. It also makes sense that if Hill was only giving Boylen one more year, that he'd just have fired him after year three because no way was everything going to be better in a year and lord knows Larry was available.. So its clear Hill lied to Boylen.

This is priceless stuff.

[Surfah]

I can't believe this thread has this many posts.

[Flattop]

What I really don't get is what Ute fans thought they'd see in year three, that year was clearly going to be a rebuild on any level considering how much scoring and rebounding we lost.

Then he makes mistakes and does a nice job correcting them and Ute fans are mad about that. It just seems there was no actual action Boylen could take to make Ute fans happy.

I've also heard a story that after year three, Hill told Boylen he had two more years. And the way Boylen recruited that makes sense. It also makes sense that if Hill was only giving Boylen one more year, that he'd just have fired him after year three because no way was everything going to be better in a year and lord knows Larry was available.. So its clear Hill lied to Boylen.

I don't get it either. I clearly saw that rebuild coming in year three, and I was sure everyone else did too.

Even with the endorsement of his parents, the recruitment of Henderson was clearly a gamble. Cleaning house after year three could also be seen as another gamble. At the very least it set the rebuild back a year. I liked that he brought in Jiggy and Clyburn, and J.J. was a nice surprise when he got healthy, but Dimaria and Kupets seemed to just fill roster spots. Foster's tendinitis and losing Jay Watkins to injury were just bad breaks.

What I have heard is that Hill first gave Boylen two more years, but then later wanted him to fire an assistant coach and hire Donny Daniels. Apparently Boylen refused, being loyal to a fault to his assistant, and then Hill said he had to win the conference to keep his job. Of course, there was no way Boylen was going to win the conference with 9 new faces.

[UteStar]

I've also heard a story that after year three, Hill told Boylen he had two more years. And the way Boylen recruited that makes sense. It also makes sense that if Hill was only giving Boylen one more year, that he'd just have fired him after year three because no way was everything going to be better in a year and lord knows Larry was available.. So its clear Hill lied to Boylen.

Oh sheesh. Let me know how your work as his agent goes in finding him another job. Those are stories that only an agent could have about his client.

[Mr. Crimson]

What I have heard is that Hill first gave Boylen two more years, but then later wanted him to fire an assistant coach and hire Donny Daniels. Apparently Boylen refused, being loyal to a fault to his assistant, and then Hill said he had to win the conference to keep his job. Of course, there was no way Boylen was going to win the conference with 9 new faces.

Well I do know now that Donny will never return to Utah as long as Chris Hill is there and Donnie wanted no part of Larry's staff.

[Mr. Crimson]

Oh sheesh. Let me know how your work as his agent goes in finding him another job. Those are stories that only an agent could have about his client.

Oh I forgot, Ute fans think only anti-Boylen stories are true.

[Flattop]

Well I do know now that Donny will never return to Utah as long as Chris Hill is there and Donnie wanted no part of Larry's staff.

Yes, I have heard that as well.

[UteStar]

Oh I forgot, Ute fans think only anti-Boylen stories are true.

No, thats not true either. You are on the extremes in everything you talk about. I think you told a nice story which I don't believe. I also hear negative stories about Boylen which I don't believe.

With that said, Boylen was fired months ago and you are still foaming at the mouth about it. Strange to say the least. Its like you are hoping Krystko will fail to somehow prove your point. As you have mentioned, Boylen is 'stunningly' well thought of throughout college basketball...he will land on his feet. Thats good. I think Boylen will get over this much sooner than you will.

[Mr. Crimson]

No, thats not true either. You are on the extremes in everything you talk about. I think you told a nice story which I don't believe. I also hear negative stories about Boylen which I don't believe.

With that said, Boylen was fired months ago and you are still foaming at the mouth about it. Strange to say the least. Its like you are hoping Krystko will fail to somehow prove your point. As you have mentioned, Boylen is 'stunningly' well thought of throughout college basketball...he will land on his feet. Thats good. I think Boylen will get over this much sooner than you will.

I'm guessing he will. Firing him has screwed up Ute hoops far worse than his career.

As for Larry, I think he's dug himself a hole from which he can't win. He's going to have the worst Ute team in history next year and then is hoping adding a guy who didn't average 10 PPG at LSU and a Big Sky PG will suddenly make us very good?

So we're going to have at best a 5 win team followed by a 10 win team and somehow we'll have good enough recruiting to make us winners?

I believe Larry's actions have assured us of another 5 years of bad basketball when things were just about to turn.

[Flattop]

With that said, Boylen was fired months ago and you are still foaming at the mouth about it. Strange to say the least. Its like you are hoping Krystko will fail to somehow prove your point.

Somehow I doubt he or I would be "foaming at the mouth" about Boylen if Utah had hired Bennett or Gottfried, or some other coach in their class.

[Mr. Crimson]

Somehow I doubt he or I would be "foaming at the mouth" about Boylen if Utah had hired Bennett or Gottfried, or some other coach in their class.

Flattop is right, all I wanted was a clear upgrade, hell I'd have settled for an argument that we've upgraded.

[UteStar]

Flattop is right, all I wanted was a clear upgrade, hell I'd have settled for an argument that we've upgraded.

Cool. Good to know that Krystko has you in his corner. You are criticizing Ute fans for only giving Boylen 4 years. Yet, you have not given Krystko more than 5 minutes. Rock and Roll!