Positive Press vs. Negative Press - who won?

[Babs]

This is definitely another Rodin moment, but the sports version.

Gail Houston firing and the academic freedom fallout = big black eye for BYU academics.

Rodin exhibit censorship = big black eye for BYU arts.

Brandon Davies punishment on eve of playoffs = big black eye for BYU sports.

These things just keep happening, like clockwork, and it seems like BYU will never learn.

for a second there I was afraid you were going to go all Dylan on us and break into "Blowin in the Wind."

[creekster]

Apart from leftist rants, I think if you drill down on not so much the standards as the punishment, BYU can't help but come out looking really bad. People will analyze this more closely as the years go by and this will be another badge of shame on BYU.

No they wont. IN texas, they think it is all happening at Baylor. Just ask Babs.

[SeattleUte]

This is definitely another Rodin moment, but the sports version.

Gail Houston firing and the academic freedom fallout = big black eye for BYU academics.

Rodin exhibit censorship = big black eye for BYU arts.

Brandon Davies punishment on eve of playoffs = big black eye for BYU sports.

These things just keep happening, like clockwork, and it seems like BYU will never learn.

Put this at the top of your list:

http://mormontruth.blogspot.com/2007/04/mark-e-petersons-horrific-racist-speech.html

[KillerDog]

No they wont. IN texas, they think it is all happening at Baylor. Just ask Babs.

Seriously, I just did a google search and it is clear that Baylor's dismissal of this Dandon Bravies kid is totally killing their football program. Their Honor Code is horrible.

[RobinFinderson]

Put this at the top of your list:

http://mormontruth.blogspot.com/2007...st-speech.html

There was also the firing of Brian Evenson over his collection of short fiction, Altmann's Tongue. At the time, the book was getting major press, and Evenson was seen as an up-and-comer the likes of David Foster Wallace (which hasn't exactly panned out, but he is still a very successful published author). In other words, he was doing exactly what one would expect for a tenure track academic. He didn't get tenure because the tone of his fiction was too dark by LDS admin standards.

Edit: Evenson is currently the chair of Literary Arts Program at Brown University. I guess this is another example of how BYU alum can be proud their alma mater's high standards.

[Eddie]

It's crazy bad luck for BYU that this happened on perhaps the most celebratory day in 50 years, certainly in 30 years for BYU basketball. Otherwise it would NOT have been a national story, as it was not with Unga.

The thing that I've not read highlighted that gets me is the element here of this concept that these DI players are somewhat like slave labor and then they do this to him. Frank DeFord goes on ad nauseum about how they should be paid. I don't agree with his conclusion that paying them is the only right thing to do.

However, there is a moral dimension to Davies pouring his hear out, developing himself from a little recruited kid from the sticks into a star on the no. 3 ranked team, and then BYU summarily ripping that moment from him. Can you imagine all he has given to BYU? To fans who get so much high from BYU (just look around here)? What other reward could he get for all his "free" service to BYU than experiencing the celebratory high they took from him?

They celebrate him as a conquering Spartan, then turn around and knock him down and spit on him because he turns out to be less than sexually pure. (How can you not be reminded about Christ's words to the mob that wanted to stone the harlot.)

Apart from leftist rants, I think if you drill down on not so much the standards as the punishment, BYU can't help but come out looking really bad. People will analyze this more closely as the years go by and this will be another badge of shame on BYU.

I have to admit, upon reading this post I came to the conclusion that I don't appreciate your participation here enough. This particular post is a classic in SO many ways, I just don't even know where to start.



Back to the subject at hand - after thinking this over since the inception of this thread, I had the thought: Does BYU even care about bad any bad press they may get from this?

I mean - they may care...but I doubt they care to the point of making any changes. And it wouldn't surprise me if their primary reaction to the folks with the most negative comments is "We're supposed to worry about what someone with THOSE morals/values thinks?"

[Babs]

No they wont. IN texas, they think it is all happening at Baylor. Just ask Babs.

Hey, monkeyman:

[originalsocal]

Whatever anyone thinks about the way the PR is blowing this minute historySeattle Ute will condemn BYU.

Fixed it for you.

[RobinFinderson]

I mean - they may care...but I doubt they care to the point of making any changes. And it wouldn't surprise me if their primary reaction to the folks with the most negative comments is "We're supposed to worry about what someone with THOSE morals/values thinks?"

The problem, as I see it, is that BYU alumni don't voice their concerns well enough. We need to ACT, or BYU will never react. Unfortunately, the dominant culture of BYU is not to question church authority, and the admin is considered by most to be an extension of the church.

[Blueintheface]

Judas Priest, don't you guys ever get bored with this crap?

[SeattleUte]

I have to admit, upon reading this post I came to the conclusion that I don't appreciate your participation here enough. This particular post is a classic in SO many ways, I just don't even know where to start.



Back to the subject at hand - after thinking this over since the inception of this thread, I had the thought: Does BYU even care about bad any bad press they may get from this?

I mean - they may care...but I doubt they care to the point of making any changes. And it wouldn't surprise me if their primary reaction to the folks with the most negative comments is "We're supposed to worry about what someone with THOSE morals/values thinks?"

No, the subject at hand is whether this has been good PR in the real word for BYU. This came up because the LDS Pravda has been busily declaring a resounding PR victory.

Someone noted that when people here talk about BYU/LDS leadership's fixation with "image" they are talking about concern for their image among the LDS stakeholders, the consituents. I thought that was very well stated,
but somewhat scary.

[SeattleUte]

Judas Priest, don't you guys ever get bored with this crap?

lol hell no. This is the best thing that's happened here since Sister Beck's fifteen minutes of fame.

[creekster]

No, the subject at hand is whether this has been good PR in the real word for BYU. This came up because the LDS Pravda has been busily declaring a resounding PR victory.

Someone noted that when people here talk about BYU/LDS leadership's fixation with "image" they are talking about concern for their image among the LDS stakeholders, the consituents. I thought that was very well stated,
but somewhat scary.

Quite being such a drama queen. Of course the church cares first and foremost about its image among members. That simply makes sense and would be true of any orgnization simialrly siutated.

Sometimes . . .

[NorthwestUteFan]

Last night's 7:00 hour on KGO (the biggest radio station in the SF Bay Area) was devoted to the Davies thing. The usual host has been out this week; his sub, Pat Thurston, is a lefty and she ripped on BYU's chastity rule (not realistic to expect a young man to refrain), said BYU has double standards, citing Jim McMahon (three decades later), and opined Davies got the boot because he was black. My wife listened while she was on the road and called me; I didn't bother to tune in.

The topic has also been discussed a lot on KNBR, the main sports radio station, where Tom Tolbert observed that under the Honor Code, a student can be expelled for wearing mismatching socks.

For some strange reason I was able to listen to that show as well while I was cutting granite tile for my kids' bathroom. Sometimes when atmospheric conditions are perfect I can tune in stations from the Bay area.

Anyway, I was tempted to call in and talk to her about a few points. After listening to a few callers, however, I recognized that she had already planned her talking points and attack points, and was following her pre-planned script like any good little talk show host would. She was more interested in pushing her 'this is racist' mantra and the 'byu is immoral for doing this' line of reasoning.

She did not realize that he turned himself in to the HCO. Among other things.

I am pretty far from being a fan of BYU sports, but I am very sad to witness what happened with this story. As SeattleUte and others have mentioned, the fallout from this will be painfully similar to the Prop 8 mess. Maybe even as damaging as the whole Jeffs dude in Texas with the Yearning for Zion polyggy group (not a church member obviously, but many non-members do not understand we are not the same church).

[creekster]

I am pretty far from being a fan of BYU sports, but I am very sad to witness what happened with this story. As SeattleUte and others have mentioned, the fallout from this will be painfully similar to the Prop 8 mess. Maybe even as damaging as the whole Jeffs dude in Texas with the Yearning for Zion polyggy group (not a church member obviously, but many non-members do not understand we are not the same church).

Especialyl not in Texas! You need to become a student of Babs' posts.

Besides, Pat Thurston is an idiot and I think even most peopel in the Bay area would agree with that. I, too, heard some of this show last night and couldnt believe how poor her logic is.