Official BYU vs Kansas State thread..........

[Surfah]

if you trap who is going to handle the ball? The guard will have to get rid of it regardless of how fast he is.

Jimmer wasn't fine bring the ball up -- it played right into the game plan by eating shot clock seconds and fatigued him as he got into the front court. The result was he tried to force the offense and if he even thought of getting into the lane there were three guys there. Sometimes you have to be radical and take the ball out of your best players hands to get it back into his hands coming off screens etc. Make your other very good ball handler do the hard work.

The foul trouble was inevitable. Small ball was the only option and he went to at times but even in small ball they tried to run the same offense again and again and ... what's the definition of insanity. It was almost like watching the Jazz in the playoffs.

He could've gone really small and spread K State out -- at the 12 minute mark the writing was on the wall unless he made drastic changes.

You assume that we would be able to trap. I don't think we'd be able to trap Clemente if they knew we were going to do it. I think that would have set up some nasty dunks at the other end with not enough guys back to cover their athletic bigs. Was our trap and press in the last 2 minutes effective?

I guess he could have made the drastic changes you wanted, but I think that would have resulted in us losing by 20+ instead of 12. We got to within 5 with Rose's gameplan but couldn't get over that hump with Pullen killing any momentum with that last 3.

[tooblue]

Half-court trap. LOL.

What kind of response is this? You ask for specifics. I offer all kinds of thoughts about a different offensive game plan and you lol at half-court trap that I throw out only after saying Rose's defensive plan was solid considering his liabilities? When the foul trouble occurred what did Rose do -- he stuck with the plan and BYU is going home.

Half court trap is an option -- if you let them get to the three point line it's inside out boom there's another three. Oh, wait. that's what happened.

[UtahDan]

I am saying that there are lots of ways to go about losing a game. Seems like a pretty easy cop-out to blame it on being "out-coached" without providing specifics.

Majerus was a great coach. No doubt about it.

Okay, maybe that wasn't the issue. What are the other possibilities? Lack of talent, inexperience, other team played out of its mind, team is worn out from its first game, bad match ups, combination of those.

[Surfah]

Okay, maybe that wasn't the issue. What are the other possibilities? Lack of talent, inexperience, other team played out of its mind, team is worn out from its first game, bad match ups, combination of those.

Fixed.

[Mr. Crimson]

Okay, maybe that wasn't the issue. What are the other possibilities? Lack of talent, inexperience, other team played out of its mind, team is worn out from its first game, bad match ups, combination of those.

Is it wrong to say Jimmer pretty much got his ass handed to him by Pullen?

[byu71]

Okay, maybe that wasn't the issue. What are the other possibilities? Lack of talent, inexperience, other team played out of its mind, team is worn out from its first game, bad match ups, combination of those.

Jackson Emery 6'7", Hartsock 7'. That would have been enough for me.

[tooblue]

You assume that we would be able to trap. I don't think we'd be able to trap Clemente if they knew we were going to do it. I think that would have set up some nasty dunks at the other end with not enough guys back to cover their athletic bigs. Was our trap and press in the last 2 minutes effective?

I guess he could have made the drastic changes you wanted, but I think that would have resulted in us losing by 20+ instead of 12. We got to within 5 with Rose's gameplan but couldn't get over that hump with Pullen killing any momentum with that last 3.

The best part of Rose's plan was the unpredictability of his defensive sets -- changing from zone to man on out of bounds plays etc. One more twist could've enhanced that game plan. I would've rather seen their bigs having to have to come to the three point line to catch the ball and then try to dribble to the hoop. Instead K States guards beat us because there was nothing stopping them from getting to the three point line and playing to their strength -- the inside out game.

[Surfah]

Is it wrong to say Jimmer pretty much got his ass handed to him by Pullen?

Yes. Pullen was amazing. But Jimmer still had 21 and 5 for his average. I don't think that constitutes handing anyone their ass.

[UtahDan]

Fixed.

I'm just tossing out all the reasons I can think of for any team. I don't know why they lost.

[Jeff Lebowski]

What kind of response is this? You ask for specifics. I offer all kinds of thoughts about a different offensive game plan and you lol at half-court trap that I throw out only after saying Rose's defensive plan was solid considering his liabilities? When the foul trouble occurred what did Rose do -- he stuck with the plan and BYU is going home.

Half court trap is an option -- if you let them get to the three point line it's inside out boom there's another three. Oh, wait. that's what happened.

I see. They lost, therefore he obviously should have done what you suggest.

I don't have much to add beyond what Surfah has said. You don't know squat about coaching basketball. Sorry, just being honest.

[Mr. Crimson]

Yes. Pullen was amazing. But Jimmer still had 21 and 5 for his average. I don't think that constitutes handing anyone their ass.

5-13, only 1-4 from 3 plus 5 turnovers while Pullen goes for 34 and mixes 4 steals into it. Plus Jimmer's scored a lot of late free throws when the game got a bit sloppy.

In a big game you need your big player to come up big. Jimmer didn't do that.

[Surfah]

I'm just tossing out all the reasons I can think of for any team. I don't know why they lost.

Well I bolded the reasons I think they lost. K State is easily more talented and athletic than BYU. They had their star player have a career night. I think K State is 254th in FT % and they outshot BYU tonight on 30 attempts. I think BYU was a bit tired. We matched up poorly with them inside and struggled to keep them off the offensive glass early which helped them get back into the game. Jimmer and the Cougars struggled to draw fouls in the first half while K State nearly fouled out Miles, Davies, and JT. It was a combination of all those things.

It was a good game. BYU was right there. There was about 2 minutes that killed BYU at about the 4 minute mark in the first half that killed BYU. I think KSU scored 9 points in about 90 seconds. Pullen jumped sideways into JT drawing the 3 point foul. Nailed all 3 and then sank a deep trey on the next possession that kind of broke BYU's back. That to me was the difference and changed the game. It was pretty even otherwise.

[byu71]

Is it wrong to say Jimmer pretty much got his ass handed to him by Pullen?

Probably not a great time to be trolling. Why not focus on how good your point guard is right now and maybe wait until Monday to go ripping on Jimmer.

[New Mexican Disaster]

I see. They lost, therefore he obviously should have done what you suggest.

I don't have much to add beyond what Surfah has said. You don't know squat about coaching basketball. Sorry, just being honest.

Actually I think he does. His comments were very insightful and show that he has a broad knowledge of the subject matter and a willingness to tinker.

Some of tooblue's ideas are high risk/high reward-but desperate times call for desperate measures, I think.

[Surfah]

5-13, only 1-4 from 3 plus 5 turnovers while Pullen goes for 34 and mixes 4 steals into it. Plus Jimmer's scored a lot of late free throws when the game got a bit sloppy.

In a big game you need your big player to come up big. Jimmer didn't do that.

Regardless Jimmer averages 21 and 5 and that's what he did. If that mean's he got his ass handed to him in your world, cool. Pullen had an amazing night and he definitely outplayed Jimmer.