Official BYU vs Kansas State thread..........

[ERCougar]

I meant to post earlier but the ER got busy...
I'm with Surfah--I'm proud of the team. Great game tonight. Well-coached and I think everyone played as well as could be expected. That includes Jimmer. No one was outstanding, but everyone showed up and played hard. KSU's just a good team, and we kept it a game. This loss really doesn't sting. I'm excited for next year.

As a BYU fan, I complain about officiating more than any other fan in the country, so it's going to surprise some that I don't have any complaints about the officiating in the second half.

[New Mexican Disaster]

As a BYU fan, I complain about officiating more than any other fan in the country, so it's going to surprise some that I don't have any complaints about the officiating in the second half.

No, if anything it looked like we got the benefit of a few calls.

[UtahDan]

As a BYU fan, I complain about officiating more than any other fan in the country, so it's going to surprise some that I don't have any complaints about the officiating in the second half.

Ha! I didn't say BYU fans complain the most. Read carefully!

[tooblue]

I meant to post earlier but the ER got busy...
I'm with Surfah--I'm proud of the team. Great game tonight. Well-coached and I think everyone played as well as could be expected. That includes Jimmer. No one was outstanding, but everyone showed up and played hard. KSU's just a good team, and we kept it a game. This loss really doesn't sting. I'm excited for next year.

As a BYU fan, I complain about officiating more than any other fan in the country, so it's going to surprise some that I don't have any complaints about the officiating in the second half.

I thought the officiating was pretty balanced -- they certainly called the game much tighter in the second half but BYU couldn't capitalize on it.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Whatever. You asked for reasons why I thought Rose was out coached -- I offered them. I officiate on average 5 basketball games a week -- youth, high school and men's league. I have also volunteered as a youth coach for several years when my children were young. As my second son starts high school next year I will volunteer as an assistant to ensure there is good coaching in this hockey mad land. The game was basically over by the 14 minute mark of the second half if BYU didn't try something different.

When you offer some genuine observations to counter my points I'll read them but taking issue with only one of my points is ridiculous, and stating I don't know squat is not a valid observation -- it's asinine.

So you can place the blame for the loss on Rose for being out-coached but if I critique your basketball analysis it is asinine?

My genuine observation is that I think your analysis is wrong. Given the speed and athleticism of KSU, a half-court trap would have been a disaster. As for the small ball idea, you must not have noticed that one of the main themes for the last two games: poor rebounding. KSU got lots of points at critical times after offensive rebounds. Small ball would have exacerbated the problem.

[tooblue]

So you can place the blame for the loss on Rose for being out-coached but if I critique your basketball analysis it is asinine?

My genuine observation is that I think your analysis is wrong. Given the speed and athleticism of KSU, a half-court trap would have been a disaster. As for the small ball idea, you must not have noticed that one of the main themes for the last two games: poor rebounding. KSU got lots of points at critical times after offensive rebounds. Small ball would have exacerbated the problem.

I don't blame the loss on Rose. As I have stated several times K State was the better team. I like Rose and think he is a good coach. But after spending a lot of time watching basketball on the floor as an official it was clear to me that it wasn't the speed that beat them it was their size and a lack of an ability to adjust the offensive game plan. K State exhausted Jimmer with constant pressure. Jimmer forced the offense and committed more turnovers than usual due to a scheme that took him out of his comfort zone of driving left as a right handed ball handler for his patented draw the contact scoop shot. it was great coaching on the part of K State -- the guards were well coached.

Defensively, BYU played well enough to win. Ultimately it was the inside out game that killed BYU. I would've tried to get their bigs to come out to the three point line to receive the ball from the guards. This could've been achieved by more trapping even at mid-court. BYU did try to trap several times at the foul line extended but there was too much panic about the bigs down low. Coaching could've changed that.

[old_gregg]

the problem was, i don't think we were down by enough before the five minute mark in the second half for rose to justify going to some kind of trap scheme. i'm not sure this is a great strategy in this game at all, though. clemente and pullen would have run us into the ground, and it's not like they had trouble moving the ball around the perimeter. i'm surprised, though, that rose didn't use a box and one (or some other floater based d) with someone attached to pullen's hip.

point is, rose is a great coach, we've got a very good team and will hopefully do this again next year. we could use a ca. 2004 ben wallace type player, but unfortunately we don't see a lot of those out of provo high. i'm excited to see what 10-11 has in store.

[SeattleUte]

the problem was, i don't think we were down by enough before the five minute mark in the second half for rose to justify going to some kind of trap scheme. i'm not sure this is a great strategy in this game at all, though. clemente and pullen would have run us into the ground, and it's not like they had trouble moving the ball around the perimeter. i'm surprised, though, that rose didn't use a box and one (or some other floater based d) with someone attached to pullen's hip.

point is, rose is a great coach, we've got a very good team and will hopefully do this again next year. we could use a ca. 2004 ben wallace type player, but unfortunately we don't see a lot of those out of provo high. i'm excited to see what 10-11 has in store.

you guys are spilling way too much ink on this. I can't beleve even Lebowski is getting sucked into this. Is tooblue qualified to coach a college basketball team? I highly doubt it. There are certain interesting things Intenet posters are qualified to say. Questioining a coach's schemes and play calling is not among them. Who cares what tooblue thinks about how Rose should have coached the game. He might as well be yammering about science.

[Babs]

There are certain interesting things Intenet posters are qualified to say.

[U-Ute]

Wow. You guys walked into a buzz saw. BYU fans can hold their high today. I don't see many teams that could have beaten KState yesterday.

[LA Ute]

Wow. You guys walked into a buzz saw. BYU fans can hold their high today. I don't see many teams that could have beaten KState yesterday.

That happens in the tournament and it can be maddening. In 1997's Elite 8 Ron whatshisname (of Kentucky) had a career game against Utah and was unstoppable. Same thing with Wally Szcerbiak (sp) against the Utes in 1999. The stars just seem aligned sometimes. Still, a 30-win season is a very nice antidote to any depression you guys might feel.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Well that game was an effort in frustration. Jimmer got worked, I don't care if he got his averages or not he was owned in that game. Getting his pocket picked, missing shots, throwing up bad shots in hopes of a foul. The guy is still the best BYU player probably since Ainge, but he got worked yesterday.

I don't understand why Loyd didn't play more. I thought he showed speed to get by KState players, and having him on the floor with Jimmer could have opened things up more for Jimmer.

I would venture that if BYU would have been able to make 30% of their shots from inside 2 feet they would have at least been tied in the game.

My expectations for this team were win 1 game, break that negative streak. I felt like they would win last night, but we ran into a hot team and can still enjoy a good season. Next year I expect us to go to the Sweet 16 or deeper, if not I will be frustrated.

[CardiacCoug]

Well that game was an effort in frustration. Jimmer got worked, I don't care if he got his averages or not he was owned in that game. Getting his pocket picked, missing shots, throwing up bad shots in hopes of a foul. The guy is still the best BYU player probably since Ainge, but he got worked yesterday.

I don't understand why Loyd didn't play more. I thought he showed speed to get by KState players, and having him on the floor with Jimmer could have opened things up more for Jimmer.

I would venture that if BYU would have been able to make 30% of their shots from inside 2 feet they would have at least been tied in the game.

My expectations for this team were win 1 game, break that negative streak. I felt like they would win last night, but we ran into a hot team and can still enjoy a good season. Next year I expect us to go to the Sweet 16 or deeper, if not I will be frustrated.

I agree. That was depressing. I think Rose is still a pretty inexperienced coach who is hopefully learning a thing or two through these games.

Pullen was a stud -- the guy couldn't miss and was dominant in defending Jimmer. We needed Fredette to be the guy who hits 7 threes and goes for 34 points on just 15 shots.

[Fiyero]

HFN are you still coming to SLC this week? We'll have to meet at the Pie and I'll fill you in on the latest Pac-10 expansion insider info.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

HFN are you still coming to SLC this week? We'll have to meet at the Pie and I'll fill you in on the latest Pac-10 expansion insider info.

No, I was only coming if BYU was there. I had arranged with my brother to take the tickets to the games if BYU didn't make it. I will probably cruise down for a weekend in April or early May, I'd love to do the Pie then.