Dr. Jekyl or Mr. Hyde

[Goatnapper'96]

In the process of balancing out the recruiting years, it looks like there will be a few casualties, and Carlon Brown is one of them. I think he has made some strides this year but he's not a "put the team on your back for a win" type guy...and when some of these young guys disappear, they completely disappear.

It'll be interesting to see if the administration and the fans give Boylen enough time to try and right the ship. I tend to think the administration will.

I think that Boylen gets at least two more years to right the ship, perhaps three. He is a really good dude and has earned some good capital. Further, Utah doesn't suck. They are a decent team in the conference in a year after winning the conference. However, Utenation views its catbird seat as the top program in the conference and winning is what matters most. So Boylen has got to win but it is hard to get rid of a coach who wins a lot but doesn't win enough. Given the damage done the latter end of the Majerus tenure and the damage done by Giacolleti I think Boylen gets at least two more years of just decent ball before anyone would consider his seat hot, probably three. By then he will be into his third year of his recruits only and if he ain't returned Utah to where its fanbase believes is their God Given position, things are going to get testy.

Saying that I am not convinced that Jim Boylen believes in the warmest cockles of his heart that he can get Utah to that point.

[jay santos]

I think that Boylen gets at least two more years to right the ship, perhaps three. He is a really good dude and has earned some good capital. Further, Utah doesn't suck. They are a decent team in the conference in a year after winning the conference. However, Utenation views its catbird seat as the top program in the conference and winning is what matters most. So Boylen has got to win but it is hard to get rid of a coach who wins a lot but doesn't win enough. Given the damage done the latter end of the Majerus tenure and the damage done by Giacolleti I think Boylen gets at least two more years of just decent ball before anyone would consider his seat hot, probably three. By then he will be into his third year of his recruits only and if he ain't returned Utah to where its fanbase believes is their God Given position, things are going to get testy.

Saying that I am not convinced that Jim Boylen believes in the warmest cockles of his heart that he can get Utah to that point.

Maybe it's time Utah reset their expectations. UNLV and BYU have been top dogs in the MWC over the past five years. With Alford at New Mexico, I see them getting to that level. Nothing about Boylen or Utah's young players suggest they'll be a top 3 MWC program for the foreseeable future.

[Goatnapper'96]

Maybe it's time Utah reset their expectations. UNLV and BYU have been top dogs in the MWC over the past five years. With Alford at New Mexico, I see them getting to that level. Nothing about Boylen or Utah's young players suggest they'll be a top 3 MWC program for the foreseeable future.

I am not convinced that Boylen can't get Utah to be as good as BYU. I love this run BYU is having and by no means do I think BYU is going to suck in the future, but I think when the dust settles Jimmer is gonna be remembered as a really special player. I think BYU is likely to win as many postseason games with him the next two years as they will normally win in a decade or more. When he is gone I think BYU returns to being the solid teams we have enjoyed under Rose and they will win 3-5 NCAA tourney games a decade. I think that those teams were better than last year's Utes but not significantly. I also think that Boylen, especially when he gets his guys all situated, will have teams better than last year's Utah team. He patched together a pretty solid team with a group of less than spectacular players. I am skeptical he will be able to recruit there as well as Majerus did, but Rick didn't have superstars in year 1 either. However, I think UNLV is likely to be the top dawg program for the next decade and I think Boylen sees that as well. I also think he realizes that Alford is putting together some nice things in UNM. He is in a hard place fighting with an established BYU program while not great, probably about as consistently good as it has been for a while. He is getting little fan support and sees that UNLV is a giant he will struggle to stay with over the long haul and UNM pretty damn competitive. If he gets a solid chance to parlay it into something better, I am betting he takes it.

[MartyFunkhouser]

SU I respect your sports knowledge but you need to take off the Ute goggles for a few minutes. Some of the stuff I have read about how good some of these players are is sickening. I am not just baseing this on the SDSU game either. Throughout the season their are several players on this team not worthy of D-1 scholarships.

Washburn is equivalent to James Anderson on BYU, very similar builds and players, Anderson never gets off the bench while Washburn is relied on heavily for the Utes. Not a good sign.

There are 12 Marshall Hendersons playing at Snow College right now and none of them will end up with D-1 Schollies. He is the BYU equivalent to a Terry Nashif.

Kim Tillie and Drca suck, enough said.

Watkins is an undersized big man that is a hustle player and gets his points on rebounds and putbacks, however Utah tries to run their offense through him which is not good.

Carlon Brown is a freak athlete that has never learned to shoot. He reminds me of a kid that used to play for Michigan named Brent Petway, one of the best dunkers I have ever seen. But when you watch him in warmups all he did was work on his dunks and rumor has it thats all he did at practice too. Never developed any other game, Brown is the same way.

Utah is in trouble and I do not see many young guys on the horizon to help, unless they really develop in a hurry.

I agree that SU has on Ute goggles, but you are just as bad with the BYU goggles with your assessment of the Utes talent. There isn't great talent, but to claim there are 12 Marshall Henderson's at Snow College is ridiculous. He isn't a great player, but he has talent and has shown flashes of ability as a freshman. The problem is he is playing 26 minutes of game and he needs time to develop his game. If the scholarship situation wasn't ridiculously imbalanced he would be getting 10-15 minutes off the bench.

I think a lot of these younger players may develop into good players, but right now look bad because they are playing more than they should.

[Mr. Crimson]

I think UNLV is likely to be the top dawg program for the next decade

I think far too many people have Lon Kruger envy. While having a Final Four run, the man has only won like three conference titles in his entire career and hasn't won one at Vegas. If the MWC tourney wasn't on his home floor would he have even made the NCAA tourney.

While it pains me to say it, Rose has to be considered the dean of MWC coaches (although it might be nice if he could win a tourney game). Alford is a failed coach at Iowa following the tried and true New Mexico method of winning games at the Pit only.

[DrumNFeather]

I am not convinced that Boylen can't get Utah to be as good as BYU. I love this run BYU is having and by no means do I think BYU is going to suck in the future, but I think when the dust settles Jimmer is gonna be remembered as a really special player. I think BYU is likely to win as many postseason games with him the next two years as they will normally win in a decade or more. When he is gone I think BYU returns to being the solid teams we have enjoyed under Rose and they will win 3-5 NCAA tourney games a decade. I think that those teams were better than last year's Utes but not significantly. I also think that Boylen, especially when he gets his guys all situated, will have teams better than last year's Utah team. He patched together a pretty solid team with a group of less than spectacular players. I am skeptical he will be able to recruit there as well as Majerus did, but Rick didn't have superstars in year 1 either. However, I think UNLV is likely to be the top dawg program for the next decade and I think Boylen sees that as well. I also think he realizes that Alford is putting together some nice things in UNM. He is in a hard place fighting with an established BYU program while not great, probably about as consistently good as it has been for a while. He is getting little fan support and sees that UNLV is a giant he will struggle to stay with over the long haul and UNM pretty damn competitive. If he gets a solid chance to parlay it into something better, I am betting he takes it.

Dave Rose has done a fantastic job of recruiting and managing his program so that the loss of certain seniors has a minimal impact. By the time Cummard was transitioning out of the program, he had been replaced both as a leader and in production. In doing this, Rose has built a program that allows for Freshman to come in and contribute on a winning team, but you're never going to lose a game because of Haws or Davies having a bad game. This is the point Boylen needs to get to...and like you, I'm wondering if he can get there.

Overall, I think Boylen is doing a good job. He has great energy and as you said, he turned a minimally talented team into a NCAA tourney team with a shared regular season title and conference tournament title to boot. I'm not ready to write off any of the young guys at this point because I think they're all just getting their feet wet and will ultimately learn how to compete and win at the collegiate level. Once his teams can go a legit 9-10 deep, I think we'll see better results. I also think that Boylen is going to need to go head-to-head vs. Dave Rose in recruiting in the state of Utah and beat him. It remains to be seen if he can.

[Goatnapper'96]

I think far too many people have Lon Kruger envy. While having a Final Four run, the man has only won like three conference titles in his entire career and hasn't won one at Vegas. If the MWC tourney wasn't on his home floor would he have even made the NCAA tourney.

While it pains me to say it, Rose has to be considered the dean of MWC coaches (although it might be nice if he could win a tourney game). Alford is a failed coach at Iowa following the tried and true New Mexico method of winning games at the Pit only.

Krugar ain't a superstar coach and I agree that he isn't as good a coach as Dave Rose, but I am thinking that he is good enough that over the long haul I believe UNLV will be the best program in the conference - taking into consideration the advantages UNLV has over the other conference foes. I doubt they win as many conference games as BYU, I think the time zone and elevation/weather differences make the road tougher for UNLV and SDSU than the rest of the contenders, but I bet they win more games in the tourney. I don't put total stock in tourney, but right now it is hard to argue that UNLV is not the best program in the MWC.

Alford has won some games out of the Pit this year and the Lobos are rebuildign every bit as much as the Utes this year. In a year with both rebuilding there is little question which team is better, IMO. I think in time he will make UNM every bit as good as they were in the late 90's. Not a huge national program but my point is that I don't think Boylen wants to compete with all that Utah must compete with. I get the feeling he might not believe that Utah can get to where it once was under him.

[jay santos]

Krugar ain't a superstar coach and I agree that he isn't as good a coach as Dave Rose, but I am thinking that he is good enough that over the long haul I believe UNLV will be the best program in the conference. I doubt they win as many conference games as BYU but I bet they win more games in the tourney. I don't put total stock in tourney, but right now it is hard to argue that UNLV is not the best program in the MWC.

Alford has won some games out of the Pit this year and the Lobos are rebuildign every bit as much as the Utes this year. In a year with both rebuilding there is little question which team is better, IMO. I think in time he will make UNM every bit as good as they were in the late 90's. Not a huge national program but my point is that I don't think Boylen wants to compete with all that Utah must compete with. I get the feeling he might not believe that Utah can get to where it once was under him.

Kruger's a good enough coach, and UNLV is the easiest place to recruit to in the MWC.

[UtahDan]

Maybe it's time Utah reset their expectations. UNLV and BYU have been top dogs in the MWC over the past five years. With Alford at New Mexico, I see them getting to that level. Nothing about Boylen or Utah's young players suggest they'll be a top 3 MWC program for the foreseeable future.

The dark side clouds everything. Impossible to see, the future is.

[Goatnapper'96]

Dave Rose has done a fantastic job of recruiting and managing his program so that the loss of certain seniors has a minimal impact. By the time Cummard was transitioning out of the program, he had been replaced both as a leader and in production. In doing this, Rose has built a program that allows for Freshman to come in and contribute on a winning team, but you're never going to lose a game because of Haws or Davies having a bad game. This is the point Boylen needs to get to...and like you, I'm wondering if he can get there.

Overall, I think Boylen is doing a good job. He has great energy and as you said, he turned a minimally talented team into a NCAA tourney team with a shared regular season title and conference tournament title to boot. I'm not ready to write off any of the young guys at this point because I think they're all just getting their feet wet and will ultimately learn how to compete and win at the collegiate level. Once his teams can go a legit 9-10 deep, I think we'll see better results. I also think that Boylen is going to need to go head-to-head vs. Dave Rose in recruiting in the state of Utah and beat him. It remains to be seen if he can.

I think Boylen can get Utah to where BYU was the past few years. I think that Jimmer's JR and SR years will be a bit of an anomaly and I think BYU puts together two really good teams. I just wonder if Boylen thinks that that ceiling will be enough so I wonder if he will bolt if he gets a better opportunity before then.

I think Boylen is just kind of dead in state. Unless the kid is a diehard Ute fan, Rose has so much momentum on his side along with the religious affiliation. Especially in Utah County, which is where all the good kids who want to stay instate are coming from the past few years and into the next few.

[Mormon Red Death]

I think Boylen can get Utah to where BYU was the past few years. I think that Jimmer's JR and SR years will be a bit of an anomaly and I think BYU puts together two really good teams. I just wonder if Boylen thinks that that ceiling will be enough so I wonder if he will bolt if he gets a better opportunity before then.

I think Boylen is just kind of dead in state. Unless the kid is a diehard Ute fan, Rose has so much momentum on his side along with the religious affiliation. Especially in Utah County, which is where all the good kids who want to stay instate are coming from the past few years and into the next few.

All of the best players in state recruits have brothers on the byu team right now.

[Goatnapper'96]

All of the best players in state recruits have brothers on the byu team right now.

The second and greater commandment appears to be on BYU's side!

Thanks Brother and Sister Collinsworth, Emery and hopefully Haws!

I also think that BYU has some good momentum with the high school coaches. Even picking up a kid like Abouo who was a bit of a project and is beginning to blossom helps. Rose has a lot going instate recruiting and while one is not likely to establish a great hoops dynasty with Utah mormon boys it is unquestionably a bit of a golden age that is likely to sustain BYU for another 8 years with some really good players. That is a lifetime for a college coach, so I can see why Boylen might be wondering if his timing to Utah was a bit unlucky.

I also think Rose is doing a good job with non-LDS kids. These kids aren't his superstars but they are so much more athletic than the 2nd tier Mormon kids BYU usually relies upon. His connection to Bishop Gorman, through Dave Rice's brother, is providing some fertile soil. I just gotta believe Dave Rice is going to be somebody's head coach before too much longer.

Does Dave even own a sports coat? He is in perpetual May-October missionary dress standards!

[Jeff Lebowski]

Thanks Brother and Sister Collinsworth, Emery and hopefully Haws!

Is there another Haws in the system?

[Flattop]

As I said the other day, I expected more bad nights before the season was through. Well, we got one of them last night.

I don't know what I would do without all these BYU fans giving me advice on what to expect with Utah basketball. Oh, gosh, how silly of me to have any expectations at all. I should just be happy to see Utah go back to the days of Lynn Archibald.

Look, if Boylen doesn't believe he can get Utah back to where it once was, he ought to quit tomorrow.

[jay santos]

Is there another Haws in the system?

There's an 8th grader that they say would play varsity along with the 9th grade Nick Emery if he was old enough.