At what point did you / will you take the coronavirus epidemic seriously?

[BlueK]

Yours truly. Where do I sign up?

Cvs.com

[Northwestcoug]

there is no “compared to”

this is the point where someone who thought Ted was arguing in good faith would patiently explain classes of antibodies and why vaccines and infections might induce different antibody class response at the site of exposure to the virus. And that this might explain why those who are both infected and who get the vaccine develop a more complete antibody response to the virus. But the main antibody response that is most efficacious, and the one that all analyzers try to detect, is the same regardless of whether you were infected or got the vaccine.

someone might try to explain that to Ted, if they thought he was arguing in good faith.

[SeattleUte]

https://youtu.be/z3wJZ9zh5a8

Awesome show. I listened to the whole thing. Great source of information and explodes all the myths. When they do tests, only the patients with placebos get sick. The story he told about the polio vaccine brought tears to my eyes. SO powerful. The cost of more testing is invariably more illness and death among those with placebos. Rate of myocarditis among men and boys is 1/400,000 for RNA vaccines, and 1/45 for Covid infection myocarditis is caused by immune response, not directly by the vaccine). Still, myocarditis is a transient illness and almost invariably without long term consequences. Viral shedding (and therefore transmission) is much greater for unvaccinated even if asymptomatic than for vaccinated (the dogooders who did the Provincetown study deserve to be slapped; they have caused so much damage; shows you science should be left to the experts). RNA vaccines do NOT cause blood clots; still, clotting caused by J&J is much more rare than clotting caused by Covid. Finally, some perspective on Israel. Boosters are unnecessary for avoiding hospitalization and death unless you’re over 70 or have comorbidities. Natural immunity is real, but government is a blunt instrument and determining legitimate natural immunity would be “a nightmare.” We should get vaccinated as a civic duty regardless (the pandemic is only with us because of low vaccine rates). Still, the only natural immunity study showed that natural immunity plus vaccine results in 2.5 times less risk of getting sick (still very low risk). He recommends one RNA shot on top of natural immunity. Pregnancy is effectively a morbidity and pregnant women most of all should be vaccinated. Vaccines most emphatically DO NOT cause miscarriages. Ivermectin, ask your veterinarian. Haha.

[Northwestcoug]

https://youtu.be/z3wJZ9zh5a8

Awesome show. I listened to the whole thing. Great source of information and explodes all the myths. When they do tests, only the patients with placebos get sick. The story he told about the polio vaccine brought tears to my eyes. SO powerful. The cost of more testing is invariably more illness and death among those with placebos. Rate of myocarditis among men and boys is 1/400,000 for RNA vaccines, and 1/45 for Covid infection myocarditis is caused by immune response, not directly by the vaccine). Still, myocarditis is a transient illness and almost invariably without long term consequences. Viral shedding (and therefore transmission) is much greater for unvaccinated even if asymptomatic than for vaccinated (the dogooders who did the Provincetown study deserve to be slapped; they have caused so much damage; shows you science should be left to the experts). RNA vaccines do NOT cause blood clots; still, clotting caused by J&J is much more rare than clotting caused by Covid. Finally, some perspective on Israel. Boosters are unnecessary for avoiding hospitalization and death unless you’re over 70 or have comorbidities. Natural immunity is real, but government is a blunt instrument and determining legitimate natural immunity would be “a nightmare.” We should get vaccinated as a civic duty regardless (the pandemic is only with us because of low vaccine rates). Still, the only natural immunity study showed that natural immunity plus vaccine results in 2.5 times less risk of getting sick (still very low risk). He recommends one RNA shot on top of natural immunity. Pregnancy is effectively a morbidity and pregnant women most of all should be vaccinated. Vaccines most emphatically DO NOT cause miscarriages. Ivermectin, ask your veterinarian. Haha.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

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[Jeff Lebowski]

https://youtu.be/z3wJZ9zh5a8

Awesome show. I listened to the whole thing. Great source of information and explodes all the myths. When they do tests, only the patients with placebos get sick. The story he told about the polio vaccine brought tears to my eyes. SO powerful. The cost of more testing is invariably more illness and death among those with placebos. Rate of myocarditis among men and boys is 1/400,000 for RNA vaccines, and 1/45 for Covid infection myocarditis is caused by immune response, not directly by the vaccine). Still, myocarditis is a transient illness and almost invariably without long term consequences. Viral shedding (and therefore transmission) is much greater for unvaccinated even if asymptomatic than for vaccinated (the dogooders who did the Provincetown study deserve to be slapped; they have caused so much damage; shows you science should be left to the experts). RNA vaccines do NOT cause blood clots; still, clotting caused by J&J is much more rare than clotting caused by Covid. Finally, some perspective on Israel. Boosters are unnecessary for avoiding hospitalization and death unless you’re over 70 or have comorbidities. Natural immunity is real, but government is a blunt instrument and determining legitimate natural immunity would be “a nightmare.” We should get vaccinated as a civic duty regardless (the pandemic is only with us because of low vaccine rates). Still, the only natural immunity study showed that natural immunity plus vaccine results in 2.5 times less risk of getting sick (still very low risk). He recommends one RNA shot on top of natural immunity. Pregnancy is effectively a morbidity and pregnant women most of all should be vaccinated. Vaccines most emphatically DO NOT cause miscarriages. Ivermectin, ask your veterinarian. Haha.

ZdoggMD is great. My son really likes him.

[Bo Diddley]

https://youtu.be/z3wJZ9zh5a8

Awesome show. I listened to the whole thing. Great source of information and explodes all the myths. When they do tests, only the patients with placebos get sick. The story he told about the polio vaccine brought tears to my eyes. SO powerful. The cost of more testing is invariably more illness and death among those with placebos. Rate of myocarditis among men and boys is 1/400,000 for RNA vaccines, and 1/45 for Covid infection myocarditis is caused by immune response, not directly by the vaccine). Still, myocarditis is a transient illness and almost invariably without long term consequences. Viral shedding (and therefore transmission) is much greater for unvaccinated even if asymptomatic than for vaccinated (the dogooders who did the Provincetown study deserve to be slapped; they have caused so much damage; shows you science should be left to the experts). RNA vaccines do NOT cause blood clots; still, clotting caused by J&J is much more rare than clotting caused by Covid. Finally, some perspective on Israel. Boosters are unnecessary for avoiding hospitalization and death unless you’re over 70 or have comorbidities. Natural immunity is real, but government is a blunt instrument and determining legitimate natural immunity would be “a nightmare.” We should get vaccinated as a civic duty regardless (the pandemic is only with us because of low vaccine rates). Still, the only natural immunity study showed that natural immunity plus vaccine results in 2.5 times less risk of getting sick (still very low risk). He recommends one RNA shot on top of natural immunity. Pregnancy is effectively a morbidity and pregnant women most of all should be vaccinated. Vaccines most emphatically DO NOT cause miscarriages. Ivermectin, ask your veterinarian. Haha.

That was really good.

He does say that natural immunity works. It stops severe reinfection. That leads me to think maybe people should be able to skirt the vaccine mandate by proving through serology that they have natural immunity.

Also, now I'm wondering how many people out there who haven't been vaccinated have been infected. I'd love to see some estimates of how much immunity we've built up in the community.

Back on July 27, the CDC estimated that total estimated infections from FEB 2020 to MAY 2021 are 120.2 million. How many of those estimated 120.2 million people have also been vaccinated? Certainly no more than 57.1%, the national rate of vaccination. That means at least another 51,565,800 people have been infected with Covid, but not been vaccinated.

So, with a US population of 330,000,000, if 188,281,747 have been fully vaccinated, another 51,565,800 have been naturally infected through May 2021. Add to that, 18.3 million, or 42.9% of the 42.7 million people have been infected since June 1, 2021, and I come up with a total of to 263,247,547 people in the US with immunity to Covid, or 78.2%. We've got to be getting close to herd immunity, right?

[SeattleUte]

That was really good.

He does say that natural immunity works. It stops severe reinfection. That leads me to think maybe people should be able to skirt the vaccine mandate by proving through serology that they have natural immunity.

Also, now I'm wondering how many people out there who haven't been vaccinated have been infected. I'd love to see some estimates of how much immunity we've built up in the community.

Back on July 27, the CDC estimated that total estimated infections from FEB 2020 to MAY 2021 are 120.2 million. How many of those estimated 120.2 million people have also been vaccinated? Certainly no more than 57.1%, the national rate of vaccination. That means at least another 51,565,800 people have been infected with Covid, but not been vaccinated.

So, with a US population of 330,000,000, if 188,281,747 have been fully vaccinated, another 51,565,800 have been naturally infected through May 2021. Add to that, 18.3 million, or 42.9% of the 42.7 million people have been infected since June 1, 2021, and I come up with a total of to 263,247,547 people in the US with immunity to Covid, or 78.2%. We've got to be getting close to herd immunity, right?

You've demonstrated why the infection rate is down 40-plus percent from the Delta peak and dropping pretty fast, and never reached anywhere near the Alpha peak. We have reason for optimism this is the last wave.

In a perfect world, natural immunity could be good enough in a mandate regime. But government is a blunt instrument, and vaccine mandates are the practical solution in a pandemic. Also, he mentioned that study that found natural immunity plus vaccine is 2.5 times more protection than just natural immunity. But natural immunity is still a lot of protection. Eventually, though, antivaxxers who were infected and don't get vaccinated will have their immunity wane.

[Bo Diddley]

You've demonstrated why the infection rate is down 40-plus percent from the Delta peak and dropping pretty fast, and never reached anywhere near the Alpha peak. We have reason for optimism this is the last wave.

In a perfect world, natural immunity could be good enough in a mandate regime. But government is a blunt instrument, and vaccine mandates are the practical solution in a pandemic. Also, he mentioned that study that found natural immunity plus vaccine is 2.5 times more protection than just natural immunity. But natural immunity is still a lot of protection. Eventually, though, antivaxxers who were infected and don't get vaccinated will have their immunity wane.

I'd be willing to let those who have natural immunity slide on this. It wouldn't be difficult for people to pay for serology and prove they have "enough" immunity. Instead of firing people, give them a process for a reasonable redress. It wouldn't be the government or even large business processing all of the extra work, it would be on the people themselves to prove it and go on record as good to go, just as they go on record as good to go by getting the vaccine.

Still, back to my optimism, I think we're getting close to being able to move pass all this in the US, and then turn our attention on getting the rest of the world vaccinated.

[Bo Diddley]

I'd be willing to let those who have natural immunity slide on this. It wouldn't be difficult for people to pay for serology and prove they have "enough" immunity. Instead of firing people, give them a process for a reasonable redress. It wouldn't be the government or even large business processing all of the extra work, it would be on the people themselves to prove it and go on record as good to go, just as they go on record as good to go by getting the vaccine.

Still, back to my optimism, I think we're getting close to being able to move pass all this in the US, and then turn our attention on getting the rest of the world vaccinated.

That said, I still think the military should be 100% mandated to get the vaccine.

[swampfrog]

I've been watching ZDoggMD for a bit now too. However, he likes Rogan, and says he made some good arguments with Gupta. Doesn't that disqualify him? (He also is critical of Rogan and states which things he gets wrong).

[SeattleUte]

I've been watching ZDoggMD for a bit now too. However, he likes Rogan, and says he made some good arguments with Gupta. Doesn't that disqualify him? (He also is critical of Rogan and states which things he gets wrong).

The fact that you think this matters is evidence of my point that icons of our cultural institutions like Rogan are our new religious leaders. They tell us what to believe, what is right and wrong, what to do. Yes, religion is officially dead. I have seen this coming for a long time, but when active LDS en mass give the finger to their prophet, for me that’s the sign that we have arrived at the practical end of religion. (Part of the problem is religion has been too tentative and late in addressing a plague of all things. Good grief.) Part of me says, good riddance. But what has replaced religion may be worse.

Now, there’s a new hierarchy, like Bishops and Cardinals. Joe Rogan has 7.5 million twitter followers. Ben Shapiro has 3.5, so Shapiro brown noses Rogan. ZDogg is just a parish priest. He’s not going to burn a bridge with Rogan. He’d probably love to be on his show (or get back to it if it’s happen). We’ve seen that entertainers may be far enough down the pecking order that hey will tolerate a much more powerful colleague doing an obscene thing in front of them with acquiescence. People who criticize Rogan don’t care about his goodwill, like Bill Maher, who has 11 million Twitter followers, or, Howard Stern, who’s more like a Holy Fool.

Moreover, it’s an unvirtuous circle. Rogan etc care most about their revenue and therefore their loyal base. So they are good at perceiving and saying what their base wants to hear. But when they and people like them invoke “science” it’s like Putin saying he won an election. If we’re going to be guided buy science, we need to accept science in full.

In recognition that cultural icons are our new clergy, I have never really opposed cancellation (depending on the facts, of course). Much is expected. Our new religious leaders need to be spotless. And if it were me, Rogan would be cancelled; burned; completely destroyed. He would burn like Gruden. His antivaxx proselytizing has been more damaging to he country overall than neo-Nazi Richard Spencer’s racist and anti Semitic message. Spencer doesn’t have millions of followers. People that Rogan has had on his show like Berenson and that horrible man with the eyebrows and his woman friend peddling Ivermectin as substitute for vaccines are no better than neo-Nazis and their motivations are just as base. Many thousands are dead because they listened to these false prophets.

Me, I’m the same as always, though. I say who cares what the likes of Rogan say. We all have a personal responsibility to consult the right experts, but beyond that, none of us should be thinking for ourselves. I listen to Drs. Paul Offit, Monica Gandhi, others like them.

[SeattleUte]

One of the most interesting aspects of Woody Allen's autobiography is his description of how this hierchy/brown-nosing/networking works in entertainment.

[swampfrog]

The fact that you think this matters is evidence of my point that icons of our cultural institutions like Rogan are our new religious leaders. They tell us what to believe, what is right and wrong, what to do. Yes, religion is officially dead. I have seen this coming for a long time, but when active LDS en mass give the finger to their prophet, for me that’s the sign that we have arrived at the practical end of religion. (Part of the problem is religion has been too tentative and late in addressing a plague of all things. Good grief.) Part of me says, good riddance. But what has replaced religion may be worse.

Now, there’s a new hierarchy, like Bishops and Cardinals. Joe Rogan has 7.5 million twitter followers. Ben Shapiro has 3.5, so Shapiro brown noses Rogan. ZDogg is just a parish priest. He’s not going to burn a bridge with Rogan. He’d probably love to be on his show (or get back to it if it’s happen). We’ve seen that entertainers may be far enough down the pecking order that hey will tolerate a much more powerful colleague doing an obscene thing in front of them with acquiescence. People who criticize Rogan don’t care about his goodwill, like Bill Maher, who has 11 million Twitter followers, or, Howard Stern, who’s more like a Holy Fool.

Moreover, it’s an unvirtuous circle. Rogan etc care most about their revenue and therefore their loyal base. So they are good at perceiving and saying what their base wants to hear. But when they and people like them invoke “science” it’s like Putin saying he won an election. If we’re going to be guided buy science, we need to accept science in full.

In recognition that cultural icons are our new clergy, I have never really opposed cancellation (depending on the facts, of course). Much is expected. Our new religious leaders need to be spotless. And if it were me, Rogan would be cancelled; burned; completely destroyed. He would burn like Gruden. His antivaxx proselytizing has been more damaging to he country overall than neo-Nazi Richard Spencer’s racist and anti Semitic message. Spencer doesn’t have millions of followers. People that Rogan has had on his show like Berenson and that horrible man with the eyebrows and his woman friend peddling Ivermectin as substitute for vaccines are no better than neo-Nazis and their motivations are just as base. Many thousands are dead because they listened to these false prophets.

Me, I’m the same as always, though. I say who cares what the likes of Rogan say. We all have a personal responsibility to consult the right experts, but beyond that, none of us should be thinking for ourselves. I listen to Drs. Paul Offit, Monica Gandhi, others like them.

I agree with the descriptive aspect of this. Rebel Wisdom just released a video with ZDogg where they cover much of this ground on social media influencers, audience capture, responsibility, etc. Ivermectin, mandates, boosters, and the Rogan/Gupta conversation are all discussed. Religion may or may not be dead, but the religious instinct is fully intact and not going away.

I think ZDogg and others are trying to figure out how to navigate this space without being captured.

I think it is also naïve to believe "The Science" is not periodically captured by the same phenomena. Humans doing science are still humans, but I don't think there is a better way. Scientists are going to be captured by the same evolutionary driven motivations of every other human. Prestige seeking and the multitude of standard human biases don't disappear when one does science.

Who decides who the right experts are. Science often gets in the way of progress.

My favorite metaphoric description of this space as clergy (Bishops, Cardinals, priests, etc.) is the Internet of Beefs.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yes, religion is officially dead. I have seen this coming for a long time, but when active LDS en mass give the finger to their prophet, for me that’s the sign that we have arrived at the practical end of religion.

Folks, this is the same guy who guaranteed that BYU would never, ever, under any circumstances be invited to a P5. And was so confident of his prediction that he started calling himself "The Oracle".

[Non Sequitur]

The fact that you think this matters is evidence of my point that icons of our cultural institutions like Rogan are our new religious leaders. They tell us what to believe, what is right and wrong, what to do. Yes, religion is officially dead. I have seen this coming for a long time, but when active LDS en mass give the finger to their prophet, for me that’s the sign that we have arrived at the practical end of religion. (Part of the problem is religion has been too tentative and late in addressing a plague of all things. Good grief.) Part of me says, good riddance. But what has replaced religion may be worse.

Now, there’s a new hierarchy, like Bishops and Cardinals. Joe Rogan has 7.5 million twitter followers. Ben Shapiro has 3.5, so Shapiro brown noses Rogan. ZDogg is just a parish priest. He’s not going to burn a bridge with Rogan. He’d probably love to be on his show (or get back to it if it’s happen). We’ve seen that entertainers may be far enough down the pecking order that hey will tolerate a much more powerful colleague doing an obscene thing in front of them with acquiescence. People who criticize Rogan don’t care about his goodwill, like Bill Maher, who has 11 million Twitter followers, or, Howard Stern, who’s more like a Holy Fool.

Moreover, it’s an unvirtuous circle. Rogan etc care most about their revenue and therefore their loyal base. So they are good at perceiving and saying what their base wants to hear. But when they and people like them invoke “science” it’s like Putin saying he won an election. If we’re going to be guided buy science, we need to accept science in full.

In recognition that cultural icons are our new clergy, I have never really opposed cancellation (depending on the facts, of course). Much is expected. Our new religious leaders need to be spotless. And if it were me, Rogan would be cancelled; burned; completely destroyed. He would burn like Gruden. His antivaxx proselytizing has been more damaging to he country overall than neo-Nazi Richard Spencer’s racist and anti Semitic message. Spencer doesn’t have millions of followers. People that Rogan has had on his show like Berenson and that horrible man with the eyebrows and his woman friend peddling Ivermectin as substitute for vaccines are no better than neo-Nazis and their motivations are just as base. Many thousands are dead because they listened to these false prophets.

Me, I’m the same as always, though. I say who cares what the likes of Rogan say. We all have a personal responsibility to consult the right experts, but beyond that, none of us should be thinking for ourselves. I listen to Drs. Paul Offit, Monica Gandhi, others like them.

I read somewhere that Joe Rogan is worth a $100 million, so there's that.