At what point did you / will you take the coronavirus epidemic seriously?

[BigFatMeanie]

I had seen somewhere recently that the CDC 'finally admitted' what was obvious, that SARS-CoV-2 can be spread by both aerosolization (i.e. staying in air longer) and by larger droplets. I recall the reaction to that was 'well, duh!'.

The background and truth of that CDC update is much more interesting. It includes decades of trust of misinterpreted research, and a difficult fight to get scientists to realize they had to let go of the perceived dogma. The article gets into the weeds, but it's a great example that no one is immune to dogmatic trust of accepted truth:

https://www.wired.com/story/the-teen...al-type=earned

What? Can it be possible that scientists are susceptible to groupthink, biases, irrational thought, arrogance, greed, power, corruption and every other form of human weakness and that these failings actually influence not only the work of individual scientists but the entire scientific community?

Science in its platonic form is awesome. The "scientific community" and "scientific consensus" is full of shit far more often than scientists care to admit.

p.s. - I'll echo Swampy, it was a great read and thanks for posting.

[swampfrog]

What? Can it be possible that scientists are susceptible to groupthink, biases, irrational thought, arrogance, greed, power, corruption and every other form of human weakness and that these failings actually influence not only the work of individual scientists but the entire scientific community?

Science in its platonic form is awesome. The "scientific community" and "scientific consensus" is full of shit far more often than scientists care to admit.

p.s. - I'll echo Swampy, it was a great read and thanks for posting.

I had some additional thoughts that are parallel to yours. This is how human institutions work. Some body of knowledge is discovered, invented, synthesized, etc. The body of knowledge is determined to have value and therefore an organization almost immediately and organically surrounds it to preserve, extend, and teach it. Varied levels of expertise in the subject matter instantly creates a hierarchy of practitioners and instructors. The body of knowledge contains unknown errors and insufficient representations of the information. The caretakers of the information receive prestige from the larger community that rightly belongs to the information, and not to the caretakers. This is conflated because of the natural status-seeking creatures that are humans. Bad actors soon recognize that the institution wields influence and seek to gain access by shortcutting the education process.

This is how the world works.

[Applejack]

Uh, I think the “scientific community” got us through Covid. I don’t think right now is the time to stomp on the scientific consensus’ grave.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Uh, I think the “scientific community” got us through Covid. I don’t think right now is the time to stomp on the scientific consensus’ grave.

No kidding. The scientific community produced three vaccines in less than a year - two of which are based on a new technology. It was an incredible triumph.

OK, during a pandemic there is some vigorous back and forth among scientists about a hypothesis? And it eventually gets updated? Isn't that part of the process?

Also, pro tip: Individual scientists telling their story to a reporter often tend to overstate the significance of their own work and may tend to get fast and loose with the details. People lap up underdog stories like this and reporters know it and spin the narrative accordingly.

[Northwestcoug]

What? Can it be possible that scientists are susceptible to groupthink, biases, irrational thought, arrogance, greed, power, corruption and every other form of human weakness and that these failings actually influence not only the work of individual scientists but the entire scientific community?

Science in its platonic form is awesome. The "scientific community" and "scientific consensus" is full of shit far more often than scientists care to admit.

p.s. - I'll echo Swampy, it was a great read and thanks for posting.

I'll agree with the sentiment. The 'far more often' is a relatively minimal amount, but there is definitely a human component to what data they choose to believe or reject.

No kidding. The scientific community produced three vaccines in less than a year - two of which are based on a new technology. It was an incredible triumph.

OK, during a pandemic there is some vigorous back and forth among scientists about a hypothesis? And it eventually gets updated? Isn't that part of the process?

Also, pro tip: Individual scientists telling their story to a reporter often tend to overstate the significance of their own work and may tend to get fast and loose with the details. People lap up underdog stories like this and reporters know it and spin the narrative accordingly.

Sure, but this is not that kind of story. It's an over-reliance on a settled fact that was 'proven' decades ago. That fact then metastasized away from its original field into infectious diseases, which then that field accepted as proven. Which it turns out is not true for some infectious organisms. It's the back story of why the CDC finally 'admitted' that SARS-CoV-2 can be spread by aerosol.

[Bo Diddley]

Wow. That's truly remarkable.

I found a similar phenomenon was the perpetuated myth that caffeine is a diuretic--all based on a study from 1928 involving three people. Actually, there have been some follow-up studies to suggest that it has at most a very mild diuretic effect. Still, I've endured years of Army leaders (including medical personnel) parroting the myth.

[SeattleUte]

I don't wear a mask anywhere I'm not required to wear it, fully vaccinated as I am, as of over 14 days ago with the second of the double-barreled Moderna. Yet everywhere I go, including outside, I'm still pretty much the only person not wearing a mask. It's kind of like being naked. Supposedly half the state is vaccinated. I have interrogated some people as why they continue to wear masks. Are these people vaccine skeptics? They seem no better than idiot right wing vaccine skeptics. The responses I get are never about science, or reason. But no, they don't claim to mistrust the vaccine. It's a social thing, like a religious apparel. I've even been told that people don't want to be mistaken for Republicans. A woman said she actually feels freer with a mask. So now we see the motivation for a lot of this exposed. Sometimes crazy right wingers aren't totally wrong I guess.

[beefytee]

I don't wear a mask anywhere I'm not required to wear it, fully vaccinated as I am, as of over 14 days ago with the second of the double-barreled Moderna. Yet everywhere I go, including outside, I'm still pretty much the only person not wearing a mask. It's kind of like being naked. Supposedly half the state is vaccinated. I have interrogated some people as why they continue to wear masks. Are these people vaccine skeptics? They seem no better than idiot right wing vaccine skeptics. The responses I get are never about science, or reason. But no, they don't claim to mistrust the vaccine. It's a social thing, like a religious apparel. I've even been told that people don't want to be mistaken for Republicans. A woman said she actually feels freer with a mask. So now we see the motivation for a lot of this exposed. Sometimes crazy right wingers aren't totally wrong I guess.

So glad you have crack the case!

So you're saying people who wear masks when there is little risk are no better than people who take the risk of not getting vaccinated. Ok. Are they going to get strangled by their mask or something? Why do you care so much? Why is this a big deal to you?

[Omaha 680]

I don't wear a mask anywhere I'm not required to wear it, fully vaccinated as I am, as of over 14 days ago with the second of the double-barreled Moderna. Yet everywhere I go, including outside, I'm still pretty much the only person not wearing a mask. It's kind of like being naked. Supposedly half the state is vaccinated. I have interrogated some people as why they continue to wear masks. Are these people vaccine skeptics? They seem no better than idiot right wing vaccine skeptics. The responses I get are never about science, or reason. But no, they don't claim to mistrust the vaccine. It's a social thing, like a religious apparel. I've even been told that people don't want to be mistaken for Republicans. A woman said she actually feels freer with a mask. So now we see the motivation for a lot of this exposed. Sometimes crazy right wingers aren't totally wrong I guess.

I'm in NYC about 50% of the time for a project right now and this is my experience. I have been going maskless outdoors in Manhattan for a while because the evidence was overwhelming that outdoor transmission is not a risk. Even with the increased vaccination I'd say less than 5% of people on the street were without masks last week. I haven't been back since the CDC updated their mask guidance for vaccinated people to reflect what we all know already, so I'm interested to see how it looks this week.

It's really unfortunate masking got so politicized. Far left areas have adopted mask wearing as a type of religious observance to be maintained in the face data saying it is no longer needed for many. Far right areas adopted bareface as a weird form of protest at the height of the pandemic when common decency dictated we should all wear them. I think masking is another thing Utah got right during the pandemic. Apart from a few weirdos, masking was pretty universally adopted indoors and in public spaces in Salt Lake County after it was apparent that it was needed. Now that the updated guidance is finally out, I expect masks to disappear as quickly as they appeared.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I'm in NYC about 50% of the time for a project right now and this is my experience. I have been going maskless outdoors in Manhattan for a while because the evidence was overwhelming that outdoor transmission is not a risk. Even with the increased vaccination I'd say less than 5% of people on the street were without masks last week. I haven't been back since the CDC updated their mask guidance for vaccinated people to reflect what we all know already, so I'm interested to see how it looks this week.

It's really unfortunate masking got so politicized. Far left areas have adopted mask wearing as a type of religious observance to be maintained in the face data saying it is no longer needed for many. Far right areas adopted bareface as a weird form of protest at the height of the pandemic when common decency dictated we should all wear them. I think masking is another thing Utah got right during the pandemic. Apart from a few weirdos, masking was pretty universally adopted indoors and in public spaces in Salt Lake County after it was apparent that it was needed. Now that the updated guidance is finally out, I expect masks to disappear as quickly as they appeared.

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am...

[Commando]

So I'm still masked up about half the time-- going into public places , meeting with clients, etc. Partially to set an example for many whom I know for a fact aren't vaccinated, and partially because I know I can still spread covid around even though I'm vaccinated and probably won't exhibit any symptoms myself. We have a couple anti-vaxxers in our office who thought shit was sweet and are home with covid this week.

[Green Monstah]

I really only followed three rules during COVID: 1. Social distancing. 2. Mask-up inside (or wherever I was asked to keep it on)* 3. Before I visited my parents, I got tested.

Now that I'm vaccinated and its cooked for three weeks, I'm still following the same exact rules.

*I used to keep one in my pocket when I was walking outside. If I passed someone on the sidewalk, I'd slip it on and then off again.

[Moliere]

I believe in science so I’m not masking unless I’m asked to do so. It’s also getting hot and muggy in Houston so there’s no way I’d wear a mask outdoors.


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[chrisrenrut]

You may have heard about The Bayou bar and restaurant in SLC, requiring proof of vaccine. It caused a lot of backlash, from a lot of nuts who would probably never visit the place anyways. Their Frequently Argued Points (FAPs) page is a run read. https://www.utahbayou.com/faps

PS- if you go, try the Gumbolaya. So good.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You may have heard about The Bayou bar and restaurant in SLC, requiring proof of vaccine. It caused a lot of backlash, from a lot of nuts who would probably never visit the place anyways. Their Frequently Argued Points (FAPs) page is a run read. https://www.utahbayou.com/faps

PS- if you go, try the Gumbolaya. So good.

That is funny.

I am cheering for the bar in this one.