War with Iran - DEFCON 3

[Walter Sobchak]

It makes no difference what men think of war. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way. War is God.

I agree that the US worships war and US culture fetishizes war (Mormons in particular... half the BoM is devoted to war). It doesn't have to be that way, and you know it.

[SeattleUte]

I agree that the US worships war and US culture fetishizes war (Mormons in particular... half the BoM is devoted to war). It doesn't have to be that way, and you know it.

Faith crisis? Time to have lunch again.

[Uncle Ted]

It makes no difference what men think of war. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way. War is God.

Besides, major wars are good for economic growth... Didn't WWII get us out of the great depression?

The Lack of Major Wars May Be Hurting Economic Growth
[...]
Counterintuitive though it may sound, the greater peacefulness of the world may make the attainment of higher rates of economic growth less urgent and thus less likely. This view does not claim that fighting wars improves economies, as of course the actual conflict brings death and destruction. The claim is also distinct from the Keynesian argument that preparing for war lifts government spending and puts people to work. Rather, the very possibility of war focuses the attention of governments on getting some basic decisions right — whether investing in science or simply liberalizing the economy. Such focus ends up improving a nation’s longer-run prospects.
[...]

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/u...ic-growth.html

Walter likes to dwell too much on the negative only.

[Sullyute]

It makes no difference what men think of war. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way. War is God.

That is beautiful. Nihilistic, but beautiful.

[Bo Diddley]

Iran finally admits it was them. It was because of "human error and US adventurism".

[frank ryan]

That is beautiful. Nihilistic, but beautiful.

Those are Cormac McCarthy's words. From Blood Meridian. SU forgot the citation.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Those are Cormac McCarthy's words. From Blood Meridian. SU forgot the citation.

SU is kind of a judge around these parts, so he doesn't really need to cite himself.

[frank ryan]

Iran finally admits it was them. It was because of "human error and US adventurism".

I'm actually really surprised they admitted this. That's better behavior than the world got from the Russians.

Here's an interesting article that shares some details what went on diplomatically during the hostile actions.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/11/u...ran-trump.html

The operation that took out General Suleimani, the commander of the Quds Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, propelled the United States to the precipice of war with Iran and plunged the world into seven days of roiling uncertainty. The story of those seven days, and the secret planning in the months preceding them, ranks as the most perilous chapter so far in President Trump’s three years in office after his decision to launch an audacious strike on Iran, and his attempt through allies and a back channel to keep the ensuing crisis from mushrooming out of control.

The president’s decision to ratchet up decades of simmering conflict with Iran set off an extraordinary worldwide drama, much of which played out behind the scenes. In capitals from Europe to the Middle East, leaders and diplomats sought to head off a full-fledged new war while at the White House and Pentagon, the president and his advisers ordered more troops to the region.

Saudi Arabia’s de facto ruler was so alarmed he dispatched his brother to Washington for a clandestine meeting with Mr. Trump. European leaders, incensed at being kept in the dark, scrambled to keep Iran from escalating. If it did, Americans developed plans to strike a command-and-control ship and conduct a cyberattack to partly disable Iran’s oil and gas sector.

But the United States also sent secret messages through Swiss intermediaries urging Iran not to respond so forcefully that Mr. Trump would feel compelled to go even further. After it did respond, firing 16 missiles at bases housing American troops without hurting anyone as a relatively harmless show of force, a message came back through the Swiss saying that would be the end of its reprisal for now. The message, forwarded to Washington within five minutes after it was received, persuaded the president to stand down.

[Bo Diddley]

I'm actually really surprised they admitted this. That's better behavior than the world got from the Russians.

I don't think the people of Iran would have stood for continued denials in the face of overwhelming evidence to what really happened. The regime in Iran is not bullet proof.

Also, after watching this episode play out, it seems apparent that the Iranian regime won't go to war with us. They know they'll lose, and that will be the end to their regime. We just won the game of chicken. Iran is content to strike out assymetrically, but won't pull the trigger and go to war. I think we stepped up to DEFCON 2, but we're back to DEFCON 3.

[myboynoah]

I don't think the people of Iran would have stood for continued denials in the face of overwhelming evidence to what really happened. The regime in Iran is not bullet proof.

Also, after watching this episode play out, it seems apparent that the Iranian regime won't go to war with us. They know they'll lose, and that will be the end to their regime. We just won the game of chicken. Iran is content to strike out assymetrically, but won't pull the trigger and go to war. I think we stepped up to DEFCON 2, but we're back to DEFCON 3.

Yep. Saddam ended up being dragged out of a spider hole.

[frank ryan]

I don't think the people of Iran would have stood for continued denials in the face of overwhelming evidence to what really happened. The regime in Iran is not bullet proof.

Also, after watching this episode play out, it seems apparent that the Iranian regime won't go to war with us. They know they'll lose, and that will be the end to their regime. We just won the game of chicken. Iran is content to strike out assymetrically, but won't pull the trigger and go to war. I think we stepped up to DEFCON 2, but we're back to DEFCON 3.

That’s good. I’d have to guess that Bibi is disappointed by that.

[creekster]

SU is kind of a judge around these parts, so he doesn't really need to cite himself.

Plus I understand he is actually bald and likes to walk around naked.

[SCcoug]

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[Bo Diddley]

We'll be going to DEFCON 4 soon. As close as we got, Trump was scared to push things too much with Iran. I'd say all bark no bite if it weren't for killing Soleimani with a drone back in January.

Still, I think Iran will try to make nice with us now that Biden is taking over the reins.

“We are happy that the other party has got the message and made its behavior more respectful," Foreign Ministry spokesman Saeed Khatibzadeh told reporters. He said the U.S. military is the “main source of tension” in the region and that Iranian forces have always acted professionally. “Unfortunately, the U.S. has often had an unprofessional approach toward Iran’s navy,” he said.

[YOhio]

Fascinating and terrifying read. It seems that someone in Mossad R&D was a fan of Breaking Bad.

The Scientist and the A.I.-Assisted, Remote-Control Killer Robot