Impeaching Trump: Make America Sane Again

[Uncle Ted]

Yes! By all means, let’s find a way to get Trump off on a technicality.

But Sch*ff said last week this never happened... so we are still good:

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The NYTimes is #fakenews.

[Northwestcoug]

No one is suggesting that. You are conflating issues. The allegedly impeachable conduct was demanding a quid pro quo from Ukraine by asking for assistance in investigating Biden in exchange for not holding up military aid. A second issue is whether the whistleblower or Schiff or the Senate intel committee manipulated the process in bringing this to the nation's attention. If it turns out the whistleblower is not entitled to anonymity under the pertinent statutes (ignoring for now the implicit suggestion by Rand that because the purpose for anonymity is gone so should the anonymity itself go away) then his/her identity should be made public, especially if this is political grandstanding. If the whistleblower loses anonymity it will have no legal impact in determining whether Trump committed an impeachable offense.

Trump acted very poorly. But Schiff is as big of a clown and has been almost as bad. A pox on both their houses.

But it will have a significant chilling effect on potential future whistleblowers. Trumps obviously knows this, since he repeatedly calls for the ID and calling him/her a spy.

What a terrible political leader. Another reason to impeach him.

[falafel]

But it will have a significant chilling effect on potential future whistleblowers. Trumps obviously knows this, since he repeatedly calls for the ID and calling him/her a spy.

What a terrible political leader. Another reason to impeach him.

If the whistleblower follows the procedures outlined in the law, they will maintain the protections (such as anonymity) of the law. In other words, it will only chill stupid whistleblowers.

[Uncle Ted]

But it will have a significant chilling effect on potential future whistleblowers. Trumps obviously knows this, since he repeatedly calls for the ID and calling him/her a spy.

What a terrible political leader. Another reason to impeach him.

Hey, I got an idea... How about the Dems just get a really good candidate, like the most quantified candidate ever, and just beat him in the upcoming election instead?

[Uncle Ted]

If the whistleblower follows the procedures outlined in the law, they will maintain the protections (such as anonymity) of the law. In other words, it will only chill stupid whistleblowers.

Given how stupid this whistleblower is I think SCcoug is right... it has to be that Bolton dude:

[creekster]

But it will have a significant chilling effect on potential future whistleblowers. Trumps obviously knows this, since he repeatedly calls for the ID and calling him/her a spy.

What a terrible political leader. Another reason to impeach him.

It might. But it might not, depending on the details behind the complaint. The entire point of the questions being asked here is if this person was, in fact, a whistleblower at all. It might be that having learned this information it was provided to the intel committee/Schiff prior to a complaint being written or filed, meaning that the whistleblower was not that at all. If not, then it will likely have little effect on actual whistleblowers. Either way, it will have no legal bearing on the impeachment proceedings, although it could have a political bearing.

[Northwestcoug]

It might. But it might not, depending on the details behind the complaint. The entire point of the questions being asked here is if this person was, in fact, a whistleblower at all. It might be that having learned this information it was provided to the intel committee/Schiff prior to a complaint being written or filed, meaning that the whistleblower was not that at all. If not, then it will likely have little effect on actual whistleblowers. Either way, it will have no legal bearing on the impeachment proceedings, although it could have a political bearing.

True. More details may come out, but this is how I'm reading it. The whistleblower contacted one of Schiff's aides, who told Schiff there was a complaint. His office told the whistleblower to go to the IG. Schiff may end up being shifty Schiff in the end, but so far it sounds like everyone did what they were supposed to do, after a few hiccups.

Prove me wrong, UT.

[frank ryan]

No one is suggesting that. You are conflating issues. The allegedly impeachable conduct was demanding a quid pro quo from Ukraine by asking for assistance in investigating Biden in exchange for not holding up military aid. A second issue is whether the whistleblower or Schiff or the Senate intel committee manipulated the process in bringing this to the nation's attention. If it turns out the whistleblower is not entitled to anonymity under the pertinent statutes (ignoring for now the implicit suggestion by Rand that because the purpose for anonymity is gone so should the anonymity itself go away) then his/her identity should be made public, especially if this is political grandstanding. If the whistleblower loses anonymity it will have no legal impact in determining whether Trump committed an impeachable offense.

Trump acted very poorly. But Schiff is as big of a clown and has been almost as bad. A pox on both their houses.

Yeah, that's one of the sillier things you've said.

[frank ryan]

True. More details may come out, but this is how I'm reading it. The whistleblower contacted one of Schiff's aides, who told Schiff there was a complaint. His office told the whistleblower to go to the IG. Schiff may end up being shifty Schiff in the end, but so far it sounds like everyone did what they were supposed to do, after a few hiccups.

Prove me wrong, UT.

Schiff is in a tough spot, and I think he's done a decent job. Certainly an upgrade over Nunes.

[creekster]

Schiff is in a tough spot, and I think he's done a decent job. Certainly an upgrade over Nunes.

He is in a tough spot? You must be joking. What on earth makes it tough? And he is not an upgrade in the least over Nunes. He is the mirror image. Schiff has acted outlandishly. Trump's own conduct has normalized some of these other guys. If you dont think Schiff is a clown, then your own partisanship is showing.

In my opinion, the fact that Trump has so little regard for behavioral, procedural and ethical norms demands that other leading participants in the process (Schiff, Pelosi, Mitchie, etc.) conduct themselves as well as they possibly can, particularly on such an important issue as impeachment of a sitting president. Rather than do so, Schiff has pandered to the basest urges of his party and has wallowed in the same sort of mire that Trump so enjoys. It is not admirable and it does as much harm in tearing at the fabric of our processes as Trump's more bombastic (but more easily dismissed) rantings do.

[originalsocal]

He is in a tough spot? You must be joking. What on earth makes it tough? And he is not an upgrade in the least over Nunes. He is the mirror image. Schiff has acted outlandishly. Trump's own conduct has normalized some of these other guys. If you dont think Schiff is a clown, then your own partisanship is showing.

In my opinion, the fact that Trump has so little regard for behavioral, procedural and ethical norms demands that other leading participants in the process (Schiff, Pelosi, Mitchie, etc.) conduct themselves as well as they possibly can, particularly on such an important issue as impeachment of a sitting president. Rather than do so, Schiff has pandered to the basest urges of his party and has wallowed in the same sort of mire that Trump so enjoys. It is not admirable and it does as much harm in tearing at the fabric of our processes as Trump's more bombastic (but more easily dismissed) rantings do.

Oh brother! Trump's stink is his own. Schiff's behavior is a bit dramatic, but not "outlandish". Obfuscation of Trump's criminal and impeachable actions by pointing to his prosecutor's behavior is on par with the myths of moral superiority spread by losers of the rivalry game. Just plain nonsense. But whatever makes you feel better.

[frank ryan]

He is in a tough spot? You must be joking. What on earth makes it tough? And he is not an upgrade in the least over Nunes. He is the mirror image. Schiff has acted outlandishly. Trump's own conduct has normalized some of these other guys. If you dont think Schiff is a clown, then your own partisanship is showing.

In my opinion, the fact that Trump has so little regard for behavioral, procedural and ethical norms demands that other leading participants in the process (Schiff, Pelosi, Mitchie, etc.) conduct themselves as well as they possibly can, particularly on such an important issue as impeachment of a sitting president. Rather than do so, Schiff has pandered to the basest urges of his party and has wallowed in the same sort of mire that Trump so enjoys. It is not admirable and it does as much harm in tearing at the fabric of our processes as Trump's more bombastic (but more easily dismissed) rantings do.

Spare me. You've been as consistently partisan as anyone else on here creek.

[creekster]

Spare me. You're been as consistently partisan as anyone else on here creek.

And why is Schiff in a tough spot?

[creekster]

Oh brother! Trump's stink is his own. Schiff's behavior is a bit dramatic, but not "outlandish". Obfuscation of Trump's criminal and impeachable actions by pointing to his prosecutor's behavior is on par with the myths of moral superiority spread by losers of the rivalry game. Just plain nonsense. But whatever makes you feel better.

What are you talking about? Trump's stink is awful. That's why Schiff's own conduct doesn't seem so bad. But make no mistake, it is bad. And if there is any truth to the idea that he orchestrated the timing of the whistleblower complaint reveal, then it will be on par with some of the stunts Trump has pulled.

[originalsocal]

What are you talking about? Trump's stink is awful. That's why Schiff's own conduct doesn't seem so bad. But make no mistake, it is bad. And if there is any truth to the idea that he orchestrated the timing of the whistleblower complaint reveal, then it will be on par with some of the stunts Trump has pulled.

No it won't. Trump used his office for his own personal gain. Timing of the reveal is just a dumb sideshow. Partisan much?