President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[myboynoah]

That anonymous letter looks completely legitimate.

Are you questioning whether or not the letter was really sent to towns in Oregon?

[YOhio]

I guess I can see, in the abstract, how someone might argue that the policy benefits of a Trump presidency would outweigh his personal shortcomings ("I don't like the mean tweets, but he's right about the border" or whatever). But it really isn't possible to parse character from policy. There's a reason why Bill Clinton's adultery (should have) mattered and why Trump's character flaws are not just personal foibles. When you've got skeletons in the closet, you are vulnerable to pressures that compromise your ability to make sound decisions: your own personal interests could be pitted against the interests of the country.

In Trump's case, it's not just that he isn't some kind of angel in a moral sense and debates about whether he loves his kids or not are beside the point. It's that he wouldn't pass the lowest-level screening for any kind of job in the intelligence community. And he will have access to the most sensitive information in the world. That fact, paired with his personal corruption (no, this is not a point that is open to debate) put us at perhaps the most perilous point in our nation's history (that may sound hyperbolic but it's arguably true). And I'm afraid that the fact that the cult of personality surrounding him means that congressional Republicans have abdicated their role to provide a check on the presidency means that we are in for some very dark times.

I'm interested in this statement. Can you expand on this a bit? Is this based on your perception of Trump? Or do you have experience with authorizing agency background checks? I'm curious what makes you so certain he'd be rejected. The only way I can say with confidence that he'd be rejected is if he had to fill out the SF-86 himself. I doubt his ADHD could get through it.

[YOhio]

Are you questioning whether or not the letter was really sent to towns in Oregon?

I'm not questioning that a letter was sent to officials in Lincoln County, Oregon. I'm suspicious of it being sent by a left-wing activist intended to create hysteria and support the narrative that deportation efforts are driven by racism. If that's wrong then I'll own it on this very message board and you can shame me.

[tooblue]

It's kind of nice to lay out a scenario where any disagreement is considered dishonest. A more confident argument wouldn't need to create a false dilemma or rely on ad hominem implicit.

Yes, I could've worded that different. However, my statements are not ad hominem, nor is it a false dilemma, because the statements are implicitly based on fact. Trump would not meet the requirement to be hired as principal, teacher or coach.

If you felt I was irrelevantly attacking you personally, I apologize. But that highlights just how significant the dilemma is. Otherwise the tone and emotion present in this exchange would not be what it is.

[YOhio]

Yes, I could've worded that different. However, my statements are not ad hominem, nor is it a false dilemma, because the statements are implicitly based on fact. Trump would not meet the requirement to be hired as principal, teacher or coach.

If you felt I was irrelevantly attacking you personally, I apologize. But that highlights just how significant the dilemma is. Otherwise the tone and emotion present in this exchange would not be what it is.

I didn't feel like you were attacking me personally. My ego is big enough that it makes me blind to the idea of anyone possibly attacking me personally. So please make it explicit if that's the intent.

Okay. If the statement is implicitly based on fact then I agree. Even though the standards vary by state, as a general statement it's true that he doesn't hold the proper certifications to be hired as a principal, teacher, or coach. He might be able to get an exemption based on life experience, etc.

[Harry Tic]

I'm interested in this statement. Can you expand on this a bit? Is this based on your perception of Trump? Or do you have experience with authorizing agency background checks? I'm curious what makes you so certain he'd be rejected. The only way I can say with confidence that he'd be rejected is if he had to fill out the SF-86 himself. I doubt his ADHD could get through it.

Well, I don't know where to start with this. True, my only experience with background checks has been to answer questions from FBI screeners on the part of job applicants. And based on the sorts of questions they have asked me about the applicants' backgrounds for low-level positions, I can't imagine how Trump could pass. He is, objectively speaking, a totally corrupt individual. There is no lack of evidence of his corruption as a business man. And, let us not forget, he is an adjudicated sex offender. I can't imagine that that would not be disqualifying.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I'm interested in this statement. Can you expand on this a bit? Is this based on your perception of Trump? Or do you have experience with authorizing agency background checks? I'm curious what makes you so certain he'd be rejected. The only way I can say with confidence that he'd be rejected is if he had to fill out the SF-86 himself. I doubt his ADHD could get through it.

You didn't ask me, but the many reasons for Trump's likely rejection would include (i) his susceptibility to flattery and sexual enticements, (ii) his superficial analytical skills; (iii) his hair trigger responses in conversation and the absence of internal filters; (iv) his unfounded self-confidence in his understanding of issues; (v) his cavalier disregard for security (see, below).... I can go on, but will stop here. Oh, and I'd read Don Jr.'s book except that I refuse to give any more money to the Trump family. The Art of the Deal was my last and final contribution.

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[Harry Tic]

ap23160668523595.jpg?v=fa9977353833f46f40b07abcd9d5240b.jpg

How can anyone see this picture--and have even a cursory awareness of Trump's efforts to avoid returning classified materials--and not wonder what his motives might have been?

[myboynoah]

I'm not questioning that a letter was sent to officials in Lincoln County, Oregon. I'm suspicious of it being sent by a left-wing activist intended to create hysteria and support the narrative that deportation efforts are driven by racism. If that's wrong then I'll own it on this very message board and you can shame me.

Pre-Trump/MAGA I might have had similar doubts about authorship, but MAGA's embrace of right wing racist movements and Trump's inability/refusal to clearly condemn racist moves in the past, as well as personal interaction with MAGA folks here in the U.S., tells me we are in different times. Racists are emboldened, so I could definitely see a letter like that being distributed. Much of MAGA's focus on immigration is clearly driven by racism. And like you, if I am wrong on this, then I too will own it on this very message board and you can shame me!

[Pelado]

I'm not questioning that a letter was sent to officials in Lincoln County, Oregon. I'm suspicious of it being sent by a left-wing activist intended to create hysteria and support the narrative that deportation efforts are driven by racism. If that's wrong then I'll own it on this very message board and you can shame me.

Agreed.

[PaloAltoCougar]

How can anyone see this picture--and have even a cursory awareness of Trump's efforts to avoid returning classified materials--and not wonder what his motives might have been?

My favorite things about that picture are the grotesquely ornate chandelier, wall fixture, and mirror frame that surround the toilet. So Trumpy in terms of taste.

[Clark Addison]

Agreed.

Thirded. Even the hard-core racists these days are better at using code words and vague terms than this.

Having said that, I'm on board with YOhio being publicly shamed if we are wrong.

[YOhio]

You didn't ask me, but the many reasons for Trump's likely rejection would include (i) his susceptibility to flattery and sexual enticements, (ii) his superficial analytical skills; (iii) his hair trigger responses in conversation and the absence of internal filters; (iv) his unfounded self-confidence in his understanding of issues; (v) his cavalier disregard for security (see, below).... I can go on, but will stop here. Oh, and I'd read Don Jr.'s book except that I refuse to give any more money to the Trump family. The Art of the Deal was my last and final contribution.

If interested, you should consider using the public library.

Harry Tic said Trump couldn't get the lowest level clearance. A confidential clearance is a pretty minimum threshold and I'd be shocked if Trump would be rejected. Only the bolded points would be factored in the determination by OSI or whoever is conducting the investigation. The other points would be addressed by whoever offered the job and holds the billet. That said, the points would be valid. Considering his most notable sexual indiscretions occurred over 18 years ago I don't think that would be considered a major factor. Cavalier disregard for security would also be a factor, especially considering the CI contained in the picture you posted. But it would also be true of Biden, Pence, Obama, and Clinton.

Now if he said Secret or Top Secret, then I think he'd have a stronger argument. But I think the same would be true for others as well.

[myboynoah]

I'm interested in this statement. Can you expand on this a bit? Is this based on your perception of Trump? Or do you have experience with authorizing agency background checks? I'm curious what makes you so certain he'd be rejected. The only way I can say with confidence that he'd be rejected is if he had to fill out the SF-86 himself. I doubt his ADHD could get through it.

Well, obviously he would have someone else fill out the SF-86, and would tell them to lie, because, well, that's just what he does. Having filled out an SF-86 and updated it on many occasions and gone through several security background investigations in my lifetime (and having a spouse who worked as a background investigator), I have no doubt that Trump would be rejected with extreme prejudice. Most likely, his very temperament would disqualify him before they got to his misrepresentations, numerous comprising relationships, and the opinions of those with whom he has worked.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Why would these guys read a book by Donald Trump Jr? They already know his sociopath dad didn't love him, he's lying, he's not well-adjusted, and didn't write the book anyways.

We have a mountain of evidence regarding Don Jr.'s character based on his public statements, social media, etc. But you never know. Maybe the soulless prick thing is just an act and down deep he is a humble, kind, thoughtful, and introspective person.