President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[YOhio]

"Seems to" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Sociopaths learn early in life to try to mimic normal behavior.

Sociopaths see people as objects, including their spouses and kids. A means to an end. Remember when Trump talked about how hot his daughter was and if she weren't his daughter, he would go after her? She is an object to him.

Trump clearly sees other people as objects. The second you show an ounce of disloyalty or become un-useful to him, you are out. He is the center of his own universe. Sociopaths are also good at lying. All of that is classic sociopath behavior.

If you want to blow your mind, check out this book. Reading it was one of the most eye-opening experiences I have had. It was written by a researcher who spent her career studying and providing therapy to sociopaths.

PS: I was slightly off. It is 1 in 25.

I hate that you guys make me defend the guy, but fine. I'll just say it. Trump loves his kids and grandkids. I think he's an asshole, a liar, and not terribly well adjusted with incredibly poor judgement or control of his appetites. He also appears to be a loving father and genuinely likes having his family around. His kids have all turned out to be successful to varying degrees. For third generation wealth they all seem to have a good work ethic and drive. At a minimum they're not embarrassing their family like Hunter Biden. Trump also acknowledges all of his grandchildren, which isn't the case with the current occupant.

This interview with Theo Von showed a different side of Trump. I don't know. Maybe he is a sociopath. I haven't read the book so I can't say for sure. I do think that very flawed people can also have some admirable qualities, even if I don't like them.

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[YOhio]

I agree he really really loves Ivanka

Yet some people say he's anti-semitic.

[Northwestcoug]

Case in point. Trump has publicly acknowledged cutting off money to his nephew with cerebral palsy, because his brother's family sued the Trump company when Trump Sr's will was changed. Doing it privately is one thing, but openly admitting and defending it seems pretty sociopathic!

The future president responded by cutting off family company payments for medical care for Fred Trump III's son, William, who had cerebral palsy.

"When [Fred III] sued us, we said: 'Why should we give him medical coverage?'" Trump told The New York Daily News at the time.

https://www.salon.com/2020/06/16/tru...eport_partner/

[BigPiney]

I agree he really really loves Ivanka

[falafel]

Trump seems to love his kids and grandkids and they seem to love him back.

Someone already mentioned it, but YO's turn towards Daddy Trump at this late stage is something to behold.

"He can't be so bad, his spoiled grandkids like him."

[YOhio]

Someone already mentioned it, but YO's turn towards Daddy Trump at this late stage is something to behold.

"He can't be so bad, his spoiled grandkids like him."

I think that's a very charitable interpretation of what I was saying. NOT!

[Bo Diddley]

I think CS is on the cusp of solving the age old Nature v Nurture question. The truth is going to be complex and no doubt, somewhere in the middle.

[YOhio]

It's so funny what kind of litmus tests we use. The Dems are the worst. You're not seeing many pro-life or pro-2A Dems like you'd occasionally see during the Blue Dog days. They drove out people like Synema and Manchin for straying from party orthodoxy. Next are the NeverTrumpers. JL pointed this out a while ago that a lot of the prominent NeverTrump conservatives are now simply just Democrats. On this board, there tends to be a lot of criticism against Trump. For the most part I agree with it even if it gets boring after a while..But when I disagree I'll say so. In this instance JL said he was a sociopath and gave a definition. I simply said that I don't think he meets that definition because he loves his kids and grandkids. I know that's considered by some a turn towards Trump,I think it's just an observation.

Another observation that may bother some. For as much shit as Trump gets for being hyper vindictive, maybe deservedly so, it's not reflected in his appointments this cycle. He selected a fierce early critic as his VP. He appointed a guy who made fun of his penis size on stage to Secretary of State. He's appointed two prominent Democrats to his cabinet. I'm sure there's more examples. Of course there are many more data points of him being vindictive and mean. I just think it's fair to point out counterexamples, even if it makes my friends here think I love him.

[myboynoah]

It's so funny what kind of litmus tests we use. The Dems are the worst. You're not seeing many pro-life or pro-2A Dems like you'd occasionally see during the Blue Dog days. They drove out people like Synema and Manchin for straying from party orthodoxy. Next are the NeverTrumpers. JL pointed this out a while ago that a lot of the prominent NeverTrump conservatives are now simply just Democrats. On this board, there tends to be a lot of criticism against Trump. For the most part I agree with it even if it gets boring after a while..But when I disagree I'll say so. In this instance JL said he was a sociopath and gave a definition. I simply said that I don't think he meets that definition because he loves his kids and grandkids. I know that's considered by some a turn towards Trump,I think it's just an observation.

Another observation that may bother some. For as much shit as Trump gets for being hyper vindictive, maybe deservedly so, it's not reflected in his appointments this cycle. He selected a fierce early critic as his VP. He appointed a guy who made fun of his penis size on stage to Secretary of State. He's appointed two prominent Democrats to his cabinet. I'm sure there's more examples. Of course there are many more data points of him being vindictive and mean. I just think it's fair to point out counterexamples, even if it makes my friends here think I love him.

Yes it does. Very boring.

Gotta disagree with your suggestion that Trump isn't that vindictive because he brought in Rubio, Vance, et al who have called him Satan in the past. All those folks have changed their tune in order to ingratiate themselves with Trump (a clear locus of power in current repub politics). I don't see that as great credit to Trump. Clearly he can be got if you kiss his ass a lot and in great flourish. That's probably one of those sociopath indicators.

We've elected a sick, sick individual as president. We just got to live with it.

[YOhio]

Yes it does. Very boring.

Gotta disagree with your suggestion that Trump isn't that vindictive because he brought in Rubio, Vance, et al who have called him Satan in the past. All those folks have changed their tune in order to ingratiate themselves with Trump (a clear locus of power in current repub politics). I don't see that as great credit to Trump. Clearly he can be got if you kiss his ass a lot and in great flourish.

Point taken. But if that's true, is that unique to Trump? Biden sacrificed the 2024 election because he was pissed at Obama and Pelosi. Anyone with an ego big enough to think they're the person for that job is going to be a vindictive asshole (except WMR he would never).

[myboynoah]

Point taken. But if that's true, is that unique to Trump? Biden sacrificed the 2024 election because he was pissed at Obama and Pelosi. Anyone with an ego big enough to think they're the person for that job is going to be a vindictive asshole (except WMR he would never).

I believe history shows us that Trump is in his own universe on this.

Shit, now I'm just getting boring.

[Maximus]

It's so funny what kind of litmus tests we use. The Dems are the worst. You're not seeing many pro-life or pro-2A Dems like you'd occasionally see during the Blue Dog days. They drove out people like Synema and Manchin for straying from party orthodoxy. Next are the NeverTrumpers. JL pointed this out a while ago that a lot of the prominent NeverTrump conservatives are now simply just Democrats. On this board, there tends to be a lot of criticism against Trump. For the most part I agree with it even if it gets boring after a while..But when I disagree I'll say so. In this instance JL said he was a sociopath and gave a definition. I simply said that I don't think he meets that definition because he loves his kids and grandkids. I know that's considered by some a turn towards Trump,I think it's just an observation.

Another observation that may bother some. For as much shit as Trump gets for being hyper vindictive, maybe deservedly so, it's not reflected in his appointments this cycle. He selected a fierce early critic as his VP. He appointed a guy who made fun of his penis size on stage to Secretary of State. He's appointed two prominent Democrats to his cabinet. I'm sure there's more examples. Of course there are many more data points of him being vindictive and mean. I just think it's fair to point out counterexamples, even if it makes my friends here think I love him.

two prominent democrats? tubi? come on now.

kissing the ring was the prerequisite for all appointments

And are eric and donald jr really well adjusted children?

[YOhio]

two prominent democrats? tubi? come on now.

kissing the ring was the prerequisite for all appointments

And are eric and donald jr really well adjusted children?

Tulsi was Vice-Chair of the DNC for four years and a Democrat primary presidential candidate. I think that's prominent.

I didn't say that Eric and Donald Jr. were well adjusted. I don't particularly care for either of them. Yet they seemed to turn out about as well as you could hope for third generation wealth.

As far as kissing the ring, that's not a scenario exclusive to Trump. Every president appoints people from whom they expect loyalty. The Executive branch and its political appointees should be expected to enact the agenda of the democratically elected President. When Obama fired McCrystal for criticizing him in Rolling Stone.it wasn't viewed as an ego trip. It was expected and deserved. Why is Trump held to a different standard?

When the going assumption is that everything he does is bad, wrong, and evil then his critics lose credibility. This only strengthens him and weakens the opposition and we've seen it time and time again. It led to a flurry of nonsense court cases and his opponents did some of the very things they were accusing him of. I think that to truly oppose Trump from doing things that are bad, wrong, and evil then some objectivity is required. Give credit where it's due so criticism also lands. I really hope some smart Dems will take that approach this go around.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I appreciate YO’s valiant efforts to provide counterarguments to the “Trump is a sociopath and a terrible human being” point shared by most here, and some of his arguments (mainly those showing similar character flaws in others, even if not on the same scale) have some merit.

The shared “love” between Trump and his kids is especially fascinating. Unlike every president going back at least to Bush 1, there is nothing in Trump’s record (so far as I am aware) of his caring for, much less spending a lot of time with, his kids as they were growing up. Trump left the childrearing up to their respective mothers. Obama blocked out an hour every day to eat with and read to his daughters, something that would be inconceivable with Trump. I think Trump’s interest in his kids as adults is more transactional than true parental love. And I think that’s true for his kids’ apparent love for their thrice-married dad who cheated on and publicly humiliated their respective mothers who obviously loved them. Would they show the same “love” and respect if their father had not made each of them multimillionaires? But among the many valuable lessons they learned from their doting mothers was that there were substantial benefits to be had by ignoring their father’s manifest flaws and showing him loyalty, Trump’s most cherished attribute in others. Genuine love is irrelevant to their relationship.

[YOhio]

I appreciate YO’s valiant efforts to provide counterarguments to the “Trump is a sociopath and a terrible human being” point shared by most here, and some of his arguments (mainly those showing similar character flaws in others, even if not on the same scale) have some merit.

The shared “love” between Trump and his kids is especially fascinating. Unlike every president going back at least to Bush 1, there is nothing in Trump’s record (so far as I am aware) of his caring for, much less spending a lot of time with, his kids as they were growing up. Trump left the childrearing up to their respective mothers. Obama blocked out an hour every day to eat with and read to his daughters, something that would be inconceivable with Trump. I think Trump’s interest in his kids as adults is more transactional than true parental love. And I think that’s true for his kids’ apparent love for their thrice-married dad who cheated on and publicly humiliated their respective mothers who obviously loved them. Would they show the same “love” and respect if their father had not made each of them multimillionaires? But among the many valuable lessons they learned from their doting mothers was that there were substantial benefits to be had by ignoring their father’s manifest flaws and showing him loyalty, Trump’s most cherished attribute in others. Genuine love is irrelevant to their relationship.

It's this kind of statement that I have difficulty with. It's a pretty harsh judgment to place on someone, particularly because it can't be refuted. It allows you to dismiss or ignore any evidence that he's an actual human being capable of demonstrating any positive attributes, even one as simple as loving his kids and grandkids. Family dynamics are complex and often misunderstood by those on the outside, occasionally even difficult to understand amongst family members. I'm sure you've seen quite a bit of that in your various church callings. He likely shows love different than you or I do, but that's not necessarily indicative of its absence.