President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[swampfrog]

I am saying you have to either condemn or accept the fact he decided this on a whim because turkey told him to on the phone along with whatever you think about the syria policy.

IE

the question isnt, should we withdraw from Syria,

the question is, should the president decide to withdraw from syria (against the wishes of his Sec of Def , national security director, and congress and everyone else giving him advice) without discussing it with anyone because turkeys president asked him why he hasnt on the phone"

I condemn the president's decision making process, however I occasionally approve of decisions he makes.

Condemn and accept are not antonyms, so either/or doesn't work here. I'm absolutely terrified that the president makes whimsical decisions. I condemn that process and accept that he has the right to make some of them. Congress and the courts should call him out when he reaches beyond his constitutional authority.

[YOhio]

Wrong. The question is should we withdraw from Syria.

Of course Trump is a huge dummy and anything he does right will probably be by accident. But withdrawing from Syria is nowhere near that disaster people are claiming.

I hope you’re right. It seems to me that the process of pulling out of Syria (breaking promises to allies, not consulting NatSec personnel, no strategic or measured timeline, surprise announcement via twitter etc.) could well turn out to be the disaster people are claiming it to be and have ramifications well beyond Syria.

[myboynoah]

I hope you’re right. It seems to me that the process of pulling out of Syria (breaking promises to allies, not consulting NatSec personnel, no strategic or measured timeline, surprise announcement via twitter etc.) could well turn out to be the disaster people are claiming it to be and have ramifications well beyond Syria.

Of course it will have ramifications well beyond Syria. But THANK GOD we are finally out of Syria. Whew!

[Maximus]

Wrong. The question is should we withdraw from Syria.

Of course Trump is a huge dummy and anything he does right will probably be by accident. But withdrawing from Syria is nowhere near that disaster people are claiming.

You cant separate the plan from trumps trason from doing ot. You can want out and still know trump did it for dumb reasons. I think mattis and co know more about if we need yo be there or not than people here btw.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You cant separate the plan from trumps trason from doing ot. You can want out and still know trump did it for dumb reasons. I think mattis and co know more about if we need yo be there or not than people here btw.

Well if Mattis says so then it must be true.

[YOhio]

Well if Mattis says so then it must be true.

An equally foolish position would be to outright dismiss what Mattis says just because you think we shouldn’t be there.

[Bo Diddley]

Great. Just great.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...-video-1272102

[Jeff Lebowski]

An equally foolish position would be to outright dismiss what Mattis says just because you think we shouldn’t be there.

So we can never second guess an authority figure? Help me understand the rules.

[LVAllen]

Great. Just great.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...-video-1272102

Commander-in-Cheeto doesn't care. Members of the military are props to him, not people.

[YOhio]

So we can never second guess an authority figure? Help me understand the rules.

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying and you nailed it! You should never second guess an authority figure! Those are the rules! Great talk, JL!

[Jeff Lebowski]

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying and you nailed it! You should never second guess an authority figure! Those are the rules! Great talk, JL!

I am glad we could clear this up.

[YOhio]

I am glad we could clear this up.

I was being sarcastic, you dolt!

Here's what I think about the whole situation and I doubt we're too far apart, but then again you've become a Trump-loving redhat MAGA on this whole matter so I could be wrong.

Though the United States shouldn't be in Syria, it has been for the past half-dozen years and has created alliances and allies during that time period.
Assad is an evil man who gasses his own people.
Russia supports Assad.
ISIS opposes Assad and the United States.
There are good people in Syria who oppose Assad and ISIS. Many of them are Kurds and have faced historical persecution by governments and tribes in the region.
The United States has made commitments to those people.
The United States has also appealed to allies for their support in Syria who have provided resources based on American commitment.
After a brief conversation with the President of Turkey, Donald Trump contravened the NatSec establishment and via Twitter announced an immediate departure of the United States from Syria.
Experts, including the Secretary of Defense and Special Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter ISIS, have said that abruptly leaving Syria will have myriad negative consequences for our allies and the United States.
These experts are so committed to that position that they refused to play part and have resigned from their jobs.

Now I can't say for sure whether Trump's plan will pan out. Maybe it will and I'll be happy. But I don't take lightly the fact that one of the most respected SecDef's in my lifetime resigned his position in opposition. Similarly, I think it's meaningful that the Brett McGurk resigned his position for similar reasons. He's been in the thick of the ISIS battle for the past few years and understands the threat more than any of us on the board. These men put their names and livelihood on the line because, based on their experience, disagree with Trump's policy. They have eyes on the ground and skin in the game.

Now, based on your posts here, you've seemed to dismiss all of the above in support of the policy that we shouldn't be in Syria anymore and have ignored the potential consequences that could result from an immediate pullout. You've been dismissive of McGurk and Mattis, ignoring their experience and viewpoints, in furtherance of the view that we simply shouldn't be in Syria. I simply say that they have a valuable viewpoint that should be considered. While we share the ultimate goal of leaving Syria, the process by which we leave should be strategically crafted and may require additional commitment of resources. But I understand that you, Putin, Trump, and Erdogan disagree with me and Mattis. Go BYU.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I was being sarcastic, you dolt!

Here's what I think about the whole situation and I doubt we're too far apart, but then again you've become a Trump-loving redhat MAGA on this whole matter so I could be wrong.

Though the United States shouldn't be in Syria, it has been for the past half-dozen years and has created alliances and allies during that time period.
Assad is an evil man who gasses his own people.
Russia supports Assad.
ISIS opposes Assad and the United States.
There are good people in Syria who oppose Assad and ISIS. Many of them are Kurds and have faced historical persecution by governments and tribes in the region.
The United States has made commitments to those people.
The United States has also appealed to allies for their support in Syria who have provided resources based on American commitment.
After a brief conversation with the President of Turkey, Donald Trump contravened the NatSec establishment and via Twitter announced an immediate departure of the United States from Syria.
Experts, including the Secretary of Defense and Special Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter ISIS, have said that abruptly leaving Syria will have myriad negative consequences for our allies and the United States.
These experts are so committed to that position that they refused to play part and have resigned from their jobs.

Now I can't say for sure whether Trump's plan will pan out. Maybe it will and I'll be happy. But I don't take lightly the fact that one of the most respected SecDef's in my lifetime resigned his position in opposition. Similarly, I think it's meaningful that the Brett McGurk resigned his position for similar reasons. He's been in the thick of the ISIS battle for the past few years and understands the threat more than any of us on the board. These men put their names and livelihood on the line because, based on their experience, disagree with Trump's policy. They have eyes on the ground and skin in the game.

Now, based on your posts here, you've seemed to dismiss all of the above in support of the policy that we shouldn't be in Syria anymore and have ignored the potential consequences that could result from an immediate pullout. You've been dismissive of McGurk and Mattis, ignoring their experience and viewpoints, in furtherance of the view that we simply shouldn't be in Syria. I simply say that they have a valuable viewpoint that should be considered. While we share the ultimate goal of leaving Syria, the process by which we leave should be strategically crafted and may require additional commitment of resources. But I understand that you, Putin, Trump, and Erdogan disagree with me and Mattis. Go BYU.

Here is my problem with these resignations and why I am dismissive of McGurk and Mattis: I keep hearing that Mattis resigning is a disaster because "he is the last adult left in the Trump administration". That is definitely a frightening proposition. But if that is true, why in the hell is he resigning?

To make a point that Trump is an idiot? Is that even debatable at this point?
To make sure their careers aren't tainted?
Do they honestly think Trump is going to change his behavior because they resigned?
Are we better off now that Mattis has resigned? Is America in a more secure position?

So you quit to make a point. Now a trump toady can take your spot. Thanks for nothing.

[old_gregg]

Here is my problem with these resignations and why I am dismissive of McGurk and Mattis: I keep hearing that Mattis resigning is a disaster because "he is the last adult left in the Trump administration". That is definitely a frightening proposition. But if that is true, why in the hell is he resigning?

To make a point that Trump is an idiot? Is that even debatable at this point?
To make sure their careers aren't tainted?
Do they honestly think Trump is going to change his behavior because they resigned?
Are we better off now that Mattis has resigned? Is America in a more secure position?

So you quit to make a point. Now a trump toady can take your spot. Thanks for nothing.

this doesn’t make sense brother, unless the argument is that their resignations are evidence of their character being flawed in such a way that their counsel on withdrawal should be dismissed. which seems like a dumb one.

[tooblue]

Here is my problem with these resignations and why I am dismissive of McGurk and Mattis: I keep hearing that Mattis resigning is a disaster because "he is the last adult left in the Trump administration". That is definitely a frightening proposition. But if that is true, why in the hell is he resigning?

To make a point that Trump is an idiot? Is that even debatable at this point?
To make sure their careers aren't tainted?
Do they honestly think Trump is going to change his behavior because they resigned?
Are we better off now that Mattis has resigned? Is America in a more secure position?

So you quit to make a point. Now a trump toady can take your spot. Thanks for nothing.

The logic in your position is faulty. Through your criticism you intimate that Mattis shouldn't leave, because it is far more dangerous for him to leave due to the fact he was reportedly the only adult left in the room. Further compounding the issue is the fact that his departure has left a vacuum which will likely be filled by a toady.

The sad truth is being the only adult in the room wasn't enough and never was going to be enough to make any kind of difference what so ever. Why then would Mattis stay and what's more why would you want Mattis to stay—so that you can sleep at night buoyed by the pretence that at least someone was keeping Trump in check? That's much more frightening!

Criticizing Mattis for resigning is ridiculous. The only action Mattis had left and that offered any kind of chance of making any kind of impact was to walk away. At the very least it should indicate to voters who voted for Trump that they really did make a bad choice—Trump isn't draining the swamp ... at this point it's clear he doesn't even know where or what the damm swamp is.