President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[wuapinmon]

President Trump's salient point is this: those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... even if he expressed it in-artfully.

Considering his immigration ideas, and how surreal life seems right now, that's a chilling thought.

[byu71]

Considering his immigration ideas, and how surreal life seems right now, that's a chilling thought.

I remember you being on the undocumented issue since I first came here.

Would you mind summarizing what you would do about illegal immigration should you be the President?

[wuapinmon]

I remember you being on the undocumented issue since I first came here.

Would you mind summarizing what you would do about illegal immigration should you be the President?

Am I fettered or unfettered? I mean do you want a practical solution, or do you want my If I Were in Charge of Everything idea?

[byu71]

Am I fettered or unfettered? I mean do you want a practical solution, or do you want my If I Were in Charge of Everything idea?

Practical. One you wouldn't be telling people it needs changing and one that should have the protestors move onto a new subject.

[Commando]

[byu71]

LOL, Wuap and I had our skirmish 8 years ago. Very congenial since then. I agreed to refer to illegals as undocumenteds and actually do feel better doing that. He agreed to not call me a racist.

[Commando]

If I may add something, I don't think protesters are protesting anything other than the unlawfulness of the orders and the blatant religious test implied here-- we're instituting a new refugee exception from these countries for minority religions, but everybody else is banned. Uhhh.... Trump claims he did it on a friday afternoon as a surprise so that the "bad guys don't flood in w a week's notice" Uhhhh. That is inherently false and stupid. He is cancelling visas, not stopping "bad guys" from coming in. A week's notice would keep the exact people out but be about 1,000% less of an inconvenience, making it so nobody had to be detained and so that families weren't uprooted from airplanes as they are MOVING TO THE U.S. It takes months to apply for, be approved, and finally receive a visa for travel. Is Trump saying the "bad guys" can circumvent this problem and "pour in" if they were given a week's notice? Anyway-- that's a very minor part of the problem.

For me, the blanket ban is based on nothing. No findings of a security lapse, no threat, no precedent of danger, nothing. Therefore, emergency powers don't apply here. He did it cause Trump Says So. And based on his follow-up tweets, that is a big problem. He is online undermining the authority and legitimacy of the Judiciary Branch, referring to the Judge who issued the injunction in Washington state as "the so-called-judge" What a stupid POS.

There are a few simple ways to improve our security, reduce the porousness of the border, and document people who are already here-- none of those things will happen the Trump Way.

[PaloAltoCougar]

If I may add something, I don't think protesters are protesting anything other than the unlawfulness of the orders and the blatant religious test implied here-- we're instituting a new refugee exception from these countries for minority religions, but everybody else is banned. Uhhh.... Trump claims he did it on a friday afternoon as a surprise so that the "bad guys don't flood in w a week's notice" Uhhhh. That is inherently false and stupid. He is cancelling visas, not stopping "bad guys" from coming in. A week's notice would keep the exact people out but be about 1,000% less of an inconvenience, making it so nobody had to be detained and so that families weren't uprooted from airplanes as they are MOVING TO THE U.S. It takes months to apply for, be approved, and finally receive a visa for travel. Is Trump saying the "bad guys" can circumvent this problem and "pour in" if they were given a week's notice? Anyway-- that's a very minor part of the problem.

For me, the blanket ban is based on nothing. No findings of a security lapse, no threat, no precedent of danger, nothing. Therefore, emergency powers don't apply here. He did it cause Trump Says So. And based on his follow-up tweets, that is a big problem. He is online undermining the authority and legitimacy of the Judiciary Branch, referring to the Judge who issued the injunction in Washington state as "the so-called-judge" What a stupid POS.

There are a few simple ways to improve our security, reduce the porousness of the border, and document people who are already here-- none of those things will happen the Trump Way.

His comments about the judge may be the worst thing he's said in quite a while, esp. his tweet: "Just cannot believe a judge would put our country in such peril. If something happens blame him and court system. People pouring in. Bad!" (Emphasis mine). If something "happens" in the next few months, it will have had nothing to do with this judge's ruling, but Trump is inciting the idiot wing of his base (as he did at his rallies) to do something retaliatory. Coming from a sitting President, this is truly shameful.

[Commando]

Honestly- is it time to impeach yet? He is facially dishonest.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.2d0d1d0b8fe4

[Jeff Lebowski]

Honestly- is it time to impeach yet? He is facially dishonest.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.2d0d1d0b8fe4

Wait until the truth comes out about the Bowling Green Massacre. CNN is going to be so embarrassed!

[Commando]

His comments about the judge may be the worst thing he's said in quite a while, esp. his tweet: "Just cannot believe a judge would put our country in such peril. If something happens blame him and court system. People pouring in. Bad!" (Emphasis mine). If something "happens" in the next few months, it will have had nothing to do with this judge's ruling, but Trump is inciting the idiot wing of his base (as he did at his rallies) to do something retaliatory. Coming from a sitting President, this is truly shameful.

Absolutely. I didn't quite have the energy to add this, too, but it is crazy awful. A sitting president, mind you, undermining the judicial branch and destabilizing the country. What is going on??

[Eddie]

If I may add something, I don't think protesters are protesting anything other than the unlawfulness of the orders and the blatant religious test implied here-- we're instituting a new refugee exception from these countries for minority religions, but everybody else is banned. Uhhh.... Trump claims he did it on a friday afternoon as a surprise so that the "bad guys don't flood in w a week's notice" Uhhhh. That is inherently false and stupid. He is cancelling visas, not stopping "bad guys" from coming in. A week's notice would keep the exact people out but be about 1,000% less of an inconvenience, making it so nobody had to be detained and so that families weren't uprooted from airplanes as they are MOVING TO THE U.S. It takes months to apply for, be approved, and finally receive a visa for travel. Is Trump saying the "bad guys" can circumvent this problem and "pour in" if they were given a week's notice? Anyway-- that's a very minor part of the problem.

For me, the blanket ban is based on nothing. No findings of a security lapse, no threat, no precedent of danger, nothing. Therefore, emergency powers don't apply here. He did it cause Trump Says So. And based on his follow-up tweets, that is a big problem. He is online undermining the authority and legitimacy of the Judiciary Branch, referring to the Judge who issued the injunction in Washington state as "the so-called-judge" What a stupid POS.

There are a few simple ways to improve our security, reduce the porousness of the border, and document people who are already here-- none of those things will happen the Trump Way.

I think you're wrong. And I think you're right.

I think that the protesters are protesting because Trump gave them something to protest. To be honest, I'm not sure how much it has to do with this particular order regarding this handful of countries and their travel. I think it is reflective of everything else. I mean - when the news is interviewing people about the ban and most of the people they are getting are folks from Mexico, Central, or South America...it tells me that this isn't about Muslims or banning people from a handful of countries. This is about Trump. Sure - it's at least partially about his immigration policy and some of the things he's said about building his wall. But I don't believe this is because people are angry that someone can't get here from Syria now.

I also think you're right - this is a dumb policy. It isn't fixing anything or making anyone safer. How many terrorist attacks have been carried out by someone with a visa coming from any of the countries named in the ban? I can see him wanting to review processes. In fact, I would hope/expect a new administration to do just that. But this "ban" or "delay" or whatever you want to call it is pretty dumb. I suppose he made all kinds of comments and "promises" as far as keeping america safe from terrorists, so maybe he feels like he has to do something. Not sure what to believe about the rumor that he wanted to find a way to keep Muslims out, and this is the only legal means he could come up with to keep some out. Sounds a little to make believe to me - but I wouldn't put it past trump.

In all honesty - I'm pretty ambivalent as far as Muslim immigrants as a whole. I have nothing against anyone of any religion. But the Muslim immigrant phenomenon has been interesting to watch. Seems like when there are stories out of Europe regarding the Muslim immigrants, they tend to relate stories of poverty, anger, unemployment and riots. Obviously, poverty is likely the biggest factor in common, but the results scary. That doesn't mean that you don't take in immigrants leaving poor nations, but it certainly means that you better have a plan that will help get them out of poverty and/or keep them occupied so that they aren't sitting around stewing on it and getting into trouble instead of being productive and advancing themselves.

(As long as I'm not being politically correct - that's probably the biggest issue as far as inner-city poverty and the Black population as well. We need a solution that provides jobs, a way out of poverty, and a means to be productive. Until those things change, nothing else will.)

[BlueK]

Absolutely. I didn't quite have the energy to add this, too, but it is crazy awful. A sitting president, mind you, undermining the judicial branch and destabilizing the country. What is going on??

Agreed. It's a complete disdain/lack of respect for our Constitutional system. I'm afraid that is the whole point. He's pursuing a presidency where he assumes he can and will do anything, and any other branch of government that checks his power is not legitimate. Wait until he starts calling fellow Republicans in Congress "traitors" or some other garbage for not giving him blank checks on everything. Trump may be ignorant of what the president's role is supposed to and not supposed to be, but Bannon is not. Steve Bannon wants to create chaos and completely destroy what we have. I don't think they will succeed, but it really is frightening.

[byu71]

Agreed. It's a complete disdain/lack of respect for our Constitutional system. I'm afraid that is the whole point. He's pursuing a presidency where he assumes he can and will do anything and any other branch of government that checks his power is not legitimate. Trump may be ignorant of what the president's role is supposed to and not supposed to be, but Bannon is not. Steve Bannon wants to create chaos and completely destroy what we have. I don't think they will succeed, but it really is frightening.

I will tell you honestly how scared you guys have gotten me. I thought for sure Trump would ignore the court order and tell the federal employees to do what he told them.

At what point do you guys think he will. Will he wait until after the Supreme Court decision?

[Commando]

I think you're wrong. And I think you're right.

I think that the protesters are protesting because Trump gave them something to protest. To be honest, I'm not sure how much it has to do with this particular order regarding this handful of countries and their travel. I think it is reflective of everything else. I mean - when the news is interviewing people about the ban and most of the people they are getting are folks from Mexico, Central, or South America...it tells me that this isn't about Muslims or banning people from a handful of countries. This is about Trump. Sure - it's at least partially about his immigration policy and some of the things he's said about building his wall. But I don't believe this is because people are angry that someone can't get here from Syria now.

I also think you're right - this is a dumb policy. It isn't fixing anything or making anyone safer. How many terrorist attacks have been carried out by someone with a visa coming from any of the countries named in the ban? I can see him wanting to review processes. In fact, I would hope/expect a new administration to do just that. But this "ban" or "delay" or whatever you want to call it is pretty dumb. I suppose he made all kinds of comments and "promises" as far as keeping america safe from terrorists, so maybe he feels like he has to do something. Not sure what to believe about the rumor that he wanted to find a way to keep Muslims out, and this is the only legal means he could come up with to keep some out. Sounds a little to make believe to me - but I wouldn't put it past trump.

In all honesty - I'm pretty ambivalent as far as Muslim immigrants as a whole. I have nothing against anyone of any religion. But the Muslim immigrant phenomenon has been interesting to watch. Seems like when there are stories out of Europe regarding the Muslim immigrants, they tend to relate stories of poverty, anger, unemployment and riots. Obviously, poverty is likely the biggest factor in common, but the results scary. That doesn't mean that you don't take in immigrants leaving poor nations, but it certainly means that you better have a plan that will help get them out of poverty and/or keep them occupied so that they aren't sitting around stewing on it and getting into trouble instead of being productive and advancing themselves.

(As long as I'm not being politically correct - that's probably the biggest issue as far as inner-city poverty and the Black population as well. We need a solution that provides jobs, a way out of poverty, and a means to be productive. Until those things change, nothing else will.)

I'm willing to be wrong about the thing you disagree on since there could be hundreds of reasons a person can protest the EO/Trump. (Although anecdotally, CBP has been going ape-shit wild with their inspections, asking green card holders to sign I-407s[forfeiture of lawful resident status], and turning away others from non-listed countries on their discretion. What happens to one group of immigrants can easily happen to another without much effort at all.) Another thing is that these refugees from Syria are mostly just regular folks running from terrorists, not trying to sneak into the U.S. The great majority of those fleeing Syria are taken in by neighboring countries. The U.S. gets something like only 5% (I think the number may be even lower, not sure) of those Syrian refugees. These are doctors, school teachers, engineers, etc. They aren't just sitting around when they get here, although I can't back that up right now outside of anecdotal evidence. My suspicion, that matches yours somewhat, is that Trump is doing it so that he can get to say he kept his campaign promises. That's why those countries on the list, while not particularly dangerous, are Muslim and will be subject to heightened scrutiny "until we can figure out what the Hell is going on" as he promised. Very conveniently, none of them are countries we have particularly important business ties to or trade relations with.

A funny sidenote is that Trump/Conway have asked rhetorically where all the criticism was for Obama when he did the same ban in 2011. Well, he didn't actually. After the 2 Iraqis w ties to Al Queda were discovered to have entered, he instituted 2 additional layers of background checks, which made the system grind to a halt for about 6 months until they got caught up with past, current, and future applications. Those layers of security- you might even refer to them as 'extreme vetting' remain in place, and no additional similar incidents have occurred since then.