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  • Originally posted by fusnik View Post

    Stop with the purity BS.

    Kinz & Cheney both supported Trump for re-election.

    Romney wanted to be his SOS and accepted his support in 2018.

    The question you should ask is, where the hell were their brains the previous 5 years?

    Am I happy they’ve come to reality? Of course! God bless them! But to pretend that they aren’t draped in Trump and weren’t a part of the problem of his excesses and boorishness is dumb.
    Lol. This is absurd. Romney voted to impeach him - twice. The only senator to do so the first time around. Liz Cheney literally sacrificed her seat in congress to fight trump. Ditto for Kinzinger. If you consider them to be "draped in the stench of trump", you really don't have any credibility in this discussion.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post

      Lol. This is absurd. Romney voted to impeach him - twice. The only senator to do so the first time around. Liz Cheney literally sacrificed her seat in congress to fight trump. Ditto for Kinzinger. If you consider them to be "draped in the stench of trump", you really don't have any credibility in this discussion.
      I'd add that Romney didn't want to be Trump's SOS, but rather was willing, perhaps even eager, to serve the nation as its chief foreign affairs representative. If we're stuck with an execrable president, and we were, I'd love to have competent people around him/her to help steady the ship. fusnik would, apparently, discourage anyone with genuine skills and ethics from serving in government if its head is a terrible person.

      fusnik's concept of purity would serve our nation very poorly. But then, fusnik has spoken approvingly of one party donating millions to horrible candidates in the other party with the goal of having more beatable opponents. That approach has backfired repeatedly (many Dems enthusiastically supported the Trump candidacy in 2015 and early 2016 and several other MAGAites who went on to victory in 2016 and 2018). If you sincerely believe a candidate is a threat to democracy (and I think Trump and his minions are just that), it's hypocritical, unprincipled, and stupid to aid and abet them thinking it will ensure your eventual victory.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by fusnik View Post

        By any standard he’s been successful. They’ve passed big bipartisan bills. Democrats performed insanely well at the mid terms. It’s not really that controversial.
        Democrats didn't perform well, Republicans massively underperformed (because of the stink of Trump, which is a Republic vice, not a Democratic virtue). It's not controversial at all to say that. And I see you're already walking back your "wildly successful" comment to "objectively successful."
        Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

        "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by falafel View Post

          Democrats didn't perform well, Republicans massively underperformed (because of the stink of Trump, which is a Republic vice, not a Democratic virtue). It's not controversial at all to say that. And I see you're already walking back your "wildly successful" comment to "objectively successful."
          That was a fusnik overswing, but I can get behind Biden having a successful presidency on balance. Even Biden has acknowledged some mistakes. The Afghanistan withdrawal was a disaster and I'm not a fan of the student loan bailout in its current form.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post

            That was a fusnik overswing, but I can get behind Biden having a successful presidency on balance. Even Biden has acknowledged some mistakes. The Afghanistan withdrawal was a disaster and I'm not a fan of the student loan bailout in its current form.
            I can agree with all this.

            As for the withdrawal, at least he followed through and made it happen. Credit Trump for negotiating a withdrawal as well. And then spread the blame around to all parties, CENTCOM military leaders included, for how it went down. The Afghan Security Forces folded like a cheap suit. Leaders overestimated those forces while simultaneously reducing the support they needed. Rules of Engagement changed, and the US Military became very hands off.

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            • I wonder how much money democrats will give to the trump primary campaign.
              "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post

                I can agree with all this.

                As for the withdrawal, at least he followed through and made it happen. Credit Trump for negotiating a withdrawal as well. And then spread the blame around to all parties, CENTCOM military leaders included, for how it went down. The Afghan Security Forces folded like a cheap suit. Leaders overestimated those forces while simultaneously reducing the support they needed. Rules of Engagement changed, and the US Military became very hands off.
                meh he was told we just needed 2-3k to stay to prevent the taliban. we knew they were folding weeks before we left.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by originalsocal View Post
                  A Mini-Trump that will not go over well outside a gerryrigged Florida.
                  You big dummy... gerryrigging is going to do nothing for the governor race. It goes by the popular vote and DeSantis won by over a million and a half of them.
                  "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                  "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                  "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                  GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post

                    Lol. This is absurd. Romney voted to impeach him - twice. The only senator to do so the first time around. Liz Cheney literally sacrificed her seat in congress to fight trump. Ditto for Kinzinger. If you consider them to be "draped in the stench of trump", you really don't have any credibility in this discussion.
                    That was a sacrificed I was willing to make...



                    Maybe next time it could be her father.
                    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Maximus View Post

                      meh he was told we just needed 2-3k to stay to prevent the taliban. we knew they were folding weeks before we left.
                      Well that's interesting, because intelligence estimates were that they would hold out for 6-12 months.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post

                        Well that's interesting, because intelligence estimates were that they would hold out for 6-12 months.
                        In addition to whatever military errors were made, another very large mistake was the administration's failure to notify our allies of what we were going to do, significantly damaging relations and trust. To its credit, the Biden administration has done much to repair that damage by the way it has handled the Russo-Ukraine War, achieving unity and a sense of common purpose that would have seemed impossible following the debacle in Afghanistan. Thanks, Putin!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post

                          In addition to whatever military errors were made, another very large mistake was the administration's failure to notify our allies of what we were going to do, significantly damaging relations and trust. To its credit, the Biden administration has done much to repair that damage by the way it has handled the Russo-Ukraine War, achieving unity and a sense of common purpose that would have seemed impossible following the debacle in Afghanistan. Thanks, Putin!
                          I can't even imagine how the Ukraine situation would be handled by Trump. Just by doing a passable job Biden is so much better than Trump on the foreign front.
                          "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                          "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                          - SeattleUte

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                          • Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post

                            I can't even imagine how the Ukraine situation would be handled by Trump. Just by doing a passable job Biden is so much better than Trump on the foreign front.
                            I know how it would be handled. Give us dirt on Hunter or we won't send aid.
                            Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

                            "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

                            GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post

                              Well that's interesting, because intelligence estimates were that they would hold out for 6-12 months.
                              but we saw it happening in real time. he had plenty of chances to chance track with troops still there to avoid total takeover. the afghan president told him like a few weeks before that it is collapsing. 2-3k troops in the airforce base just providing air support long term wouldve been better than the taliban in control again

                              but even if we still did it, still plenty he could've done in the months leading up to get more people out. instead we left behind thousands.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Maximus View Post

                                but we saw it happening in real time. he had plenty of chances to chance track with troops still there to avoid total takeover. the afghan president told him like a few weeks before that it is collapsing. 2-3k troops in the airforce base just providing air support long term wouldve been better than the taliban in control again

                                but even if we still did it, still plenty he could've done in the months leading up to get more people out. instead we left behind thousands.
                                I'm really not convinced 2-3k troops would have been enough. We were able to get to a lower level with a negotiated withdrawal with the Taliban. Once we broke the agreement, it would have been game on.

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