President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[wally]

He did. He included the first and second 'strings' of Iranian leadership and others. I realize they are probably not any more sympathetic than Souleimani, but my point was that Trump celebrates extrajudicial killing more than any president should, human or not.

While I agree with you regarding Trump's behavior here. I am curious about the descriptor of "extrajudicial killing." When I sought a clearer definition (via a.i. of course) of whether the killings were extrajudicial seems to be simply a matter of perspective or opinion. There really is no international "law" and if you view international treaties and agreements as "law," they are only as strongly "enforced" as the international community is willing to "enforce" them. I have long been interested in how "world-governance" could ever be achieved and I don't think that it can or will for a looooooooooong time. Or a short time with extreme divine intervention.

[Northwestcoug]

While I agree with you regarding Trump's behavior here. I am curious about the descriptor of "extrajudicial killing." When I sought a clearer definition (via a.i. of course) of whether the killings were extrajudicial seems to be simply a matter of perspective or opinion. There really is no international "law" and if you view international treaties and agreements as "law," they are only as strongly "enforced" as the international community is willing to "enforce" them. I have long been interested in how "world-governance" could ever be achieved and I don't think that it can or will for a looooooooooong time. Or a short time with extreme divine intervention.

With regards to Souleimani, I suppose if he was killed under the auspices of the AUMF it isn't technically extrajudicial? But still, it's a travesty that the country is doing war-like actions under an authority that should have lapsed a long time ago.

But the alleged drug boat and Iranian killings are solidly extrajudicial. With the boats, suspected drug runners are killed for actions that we as a country do not have capital punishment for. I don't understand how the majority of this country is appears OK with this. And with the Iranian leaders (and the many, many innocent lives), there is no formal declaration of war.

[Maximus]

ho wmany allies, r leaders could be killed with same justification

[falafel]

While I agree with you regarding Trump's behavior here. I am curious about the descriptor of "extrajudicial killing." When I sought a clearer definition (via a.i. of course) of whether the killings were extrajudicial seems to be simply a matter of perspective or opinion. There really is no international "law" and if you view international treaties and agreements as "law," they are only as strongly "enforced" as the international community is willing to "enforce" them. I have long been interested in how "world-governance" could ever be achieved and I don't think that it can or will for a looooooooooong time. Or a short time with extreme divine intervention.

Wally giving the case that Trump can kill anyone no problem.

The idea that the international community can't or won't police "extra-judicial" killings is not a new take. International law is mainly voluntary. That is not an excuse for the most powerful man in the world to just kill people because he feels like it. It is us to the citizens to elect leaders that will be moral, or at least look at what is moral. Just because Trump can does not mean that Trump should. We can't just off-load our responsibility and "welp, international law won't stop him, so we good to go!"

Unless you are going to respond snarkily, in which, FUCK EVERYBODY WOOOO!!!!

[wally]

Wally giving the case that Trump can kill anyone no problem.

The idea that the international community can't or won't police "extra-judicial" killings is not a new take. International law is mainly voluntary. That is not an excuse for the most powerful man in the world to just kill people because he feels like it. It is us to the citizens to elect leaders that will be moral, or at least look at what is moral. Just because Trump can does not mean that Trump should. We can't just off-load our responsibility and "welp, international law won't stop him, so we good to go!"

Unless you are going to respond snarkily, in which, FUCK EVERYBODY WOOOO!!!!

Not necessarily Trump, just powerful nations. Do you think that Trump even knew Soleimani's name before the day that some pentagon advisor said "hey, Prez, this would be a good guy to kill and we have the perfect opportunity!" It is weird to imagine that there might be some brain trust at the executive level that has some kind of "kill list" for just such an occasion. I don't believe that any President coming into office already has one ready. I think it would have to be some Pentagon and/or intelligence staffer that does, and that it all comes down to some kind of decision science on if, when, where, and how. How crazy would that be?

I mostly gravitate (but this could change) toward John Mearsheimer's "Offensive Realism" perspective on international relations. Basically, that nations push the envelope regarding their best perceived advantage, up until there is significant enough blowback, in order to best position the homeland for long-term survival. Trump is clearly testing how "offensive" the US can get (literally and figuratively!). While I don't like at face value many of Trumps decisions, I am loath to 'knee-jerk' into him making the wrong decision because we just really aren't party to all of the information. Even Obama admitted that he regretted deposing Gaddafi, and frankly I don't think we know yet whether that was really a good or bad thing. Certainly, some bad has come of it, but is it worse than what would have been or is Lybia's civil conflict ultimately going to give rise to a better regime? (unlikely, but who knows??)

[dabrockster]

Bro, use some critical thinking skills once in a while.

Critical thinking isn’t just saying ‘critical thinking’ when you run out of arguments.

[falafel]

Critical thinking isn’t just saying ‘critical thinking’ when you run out of arguments.

EXACTLY. Step 1 - identify what critical thinking means. You are well on your way to actually using the skill!

[falafel]

Not necessarily Trump, just powerful nations. Do you think that Trump even knew Soleimani's name before the day that some pentagon advisor said "hey, Prez, this would be a good guy to kill and we have the perfect opportunity!" It is weird to imagine that there might be some brain trust at the executive level that has some kind of "kill list" for just such an occasion. I don't believe that any President coming into office already has one ready. I think it would have to be some Pentagon and/or intelligence staffer that does, and that it all comes down to some kind of decision science on if, when, where, and how. How crazy would that be?

I sure has hell hope so. You think Trump NOT knowing is a virtue? Thank goodness for that brain trust with the executive kill list they can just feed Trump every time he has a murderous impulse.

[dabrockster]

EXACTLY. Step 1 - identify what critical thinking means. You are well on your way to actually using the skill!

A juvenile ‘gotcha’ disguised as guidance. Come back when you’ve graduated from Step 1 and middle‑school rhetoric.

[falafel]

A juvenile ‘gotcha’ disguised as guidance. Come back when you’ve graduated from Step 1 and middle‑school rhetoric.

Okay Brock. Got me.



Hey! I'm back!

[Maximus]

they are having a press conference on the reflecting pool 'vandals' lol

[tooblue]

This is clever lol ...

americanstatefair.jpg

[frank ryan]

Any of our conservatives go to Trump's great American fair?

Sounds like it's been a disaster.

[Shaka]

My friend Caleb owns Soundhouse, and one of his school's bands played it a couple of days ago. Looks like they had a lot of fun.