President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[Jeff Lebowski]

A good friend of mine and retired USAF had this to say and hits it on the nail and again just shows another hypocritical left has over such actions when they are not the one in control.


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In 2011, the Obama Admin used drones to kill an American born (Las Cruces, NM) citizen named Anwar al-Awlaki. al-Awlaki was of Yemeni descent and spent time in both countries pursuing his education, got radicalized, and started speaking out against the U.S. The Obama Admin accused him of being a part of Al Qaeda in Yemen and added his name to a presidential "kill list." This was approved by Obama's DOJ. A few weeks later, they killed his 16 y/o son who was also an American born (Denver, CO) citizen.

These gentlemen were probably terrorist shitbags. I won't mourn their deaths. However, at no point in all of this was there a semblance of due process. The judiciary, trial in absentia etc was not involved or accomplished., respectively.This assassination was accomplished solely by executive action...i.e. Obama's orders. This is the legal and moral gray area in which service members operate in. As an intellectual exercise, this is exactly the type of order the "Seditious Six" want our troops to start questioning. 9.9 times out of ten, an illegal order is not "Hey, go kill those unarmed women and children." It is very complicated.

So...what would have happened to the drone pilot if they had refused this order? Presumably, the pilot is not a lawyer and may not understand the legal intricacies at play here and whether it was a "legal" order. This also assumes the pilot even knew it was a fellow American he was killing. In the military, you have to trust your chain of command. Without that, it all falls apart. At best, the drone pilot would have been relieved of duty. At worst, they would have been court-martialed. Meanwhile, the Senate members who encouraged this will be sipping their lattes at the Russell Senate bldg while the troop is making big rocks into little rocks at a place like Leavenworth.

This guy is exactly right.

[Northwestcoug]

A good friend of mine and retired USAF had this to say and hits it on the nail and again just shows another hypocritical left has over such actions when they are not the one in control.


*****************

In 2011, the Obama Admin used drones to kill an American born (Las Cruces, NM) citizen named Anwar al-Awlaki. al-Awlaki was of Yemeni descent and spent time in both countries pursuing his education, got radicalized, and started speaking out against the U.S. The Obama Admin accused him of being a part of Al Qaeda in Yemen and added his name to a presidential "kill list." This was approved by Obama's DOJ. A few weeks later, they killed his 16 y/o son who was also an American born (Denver, CO) citizen.

These gentlemen were probably terrorist shitbags. I won't mourn their deaths. However, at no point in all of this was there a semblance of due process. The judiciary, trial in absentia etc was not involved or accomplished., respectively.This assassination was accomplished solely by executive action...i.e. Obama's orders. This is the legal and moral gray area in which service members operate in. As an intellectual exercise, this is exactly the type of order the "Seditious Six" want our troops to start questioning. 9.9 times out of ten, an illegal order is not "Hey, go kill those unarmed women and children." It is very complicated.

So...what would have happened to the drone pilot if they had refused this order? Presumably, the pilot is not a lawyer and may not understand the legal intricacies at play here and whether it was a "legal" order. This also assumes the pilot even knew it was a fellow American he was killing. In the military, you have to trust your chain of command. Without that, it all falls apart. At best, the drone pilot would have been relieved of duty. At worst, they would have been court-martialed. Meanwhile, the Senate members who encouraged this will be sipping their lattes at the Russell Senate bldg while the troop is making big rocks into little rocks at a place like Leavenworth.

This country's wide use of drone strikes under authorization that should have long ago been rescinded continues to be a moral stain on the country. But at least Obama et al had some guise of a direct connection to a lawfully enacted authorization. Consider the tortured path Trump's admin has used with AUMF re: extrajudicial killing of suspected drug runners. They were designated 'narco-terrorists' because the flow of drugs to the country leads to the death of Americans, which in a global sense is true. But there is no evidence that the trafficking currently targeted is related to fentanyl, which is what the Trump admin claims is the reason why these war-like measures are necessary. Much of the cocaine-associated mortality in the US is due to concomitant opioid use.

The Trump admin is designating entities as terrorists by linking opioid death in America to try to justify extrajudicial killings of suspected drug runners not even involved in the opioid crisis under the guise of AUMF legality. I suppose the country has crossed a rubicon of sorts by failing to rescind AUMF for many years now, and the current Caribbean action is considered legal after everything else has been justified. But surely there is a strong argument against the legality of linking these deaths with AUMF. Because there certainly is a strong moral argument against it. If it is not reckoned with soon, it will be used as precedent for even more immoral action in the future.

Was the video political in nature? Of course, they're politicians. Does their message have potential to stir division and cause contention in the military? I suppose. Should the message that an oath to the constitution supersedes an unlawful order be broadcast, when you have an administration that so openly tests legal limits regarding the military and oversteps them? Absolutely.

[myboynoah]

I haven't followed the discussion in this thread, but I think the video telling military members they don't need to obey illegal rules was a dumb political stunt.

Agreed. That said, the response by the White House and Dopey Hegseth is giving them plenty of cover. Hegseth is making Mark Kelly a hero.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Agreed. That said, the response by the White House and Dopey Hegseth is giving them plenty of cover. Hegseth is making Mark Kelly a hero.

Yep

[beefytee]

Yep. Really dumb video, basically a type of “when did you stop beating your wife” type video. The implications are there and it isn’t good.

Then a much worse response from the President and his group.

[Maximus]

if donald trump ordered people to enforce his 2020 election stela attempt should they have obeyed orders?

[Maximus]

Happy Thanksgiving to you too donald

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[PaloAltoCougar]

Happy Thanksgiving to you too donald

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Such an embarrassment. It's astonishing how his supporters either believe, or dismiss as unimportant, his ridiculously erroneous claims like "The official United States Foreign population stands at 53 million people (Census), most of which are on welfare, from failed nations, or from prisons, mental institutions, gangs, or drug cartels" [emphasis mine]. A variety of independent sources confirm that foreign-born residents are much less likely to commit a crime, are more likely to generate income from new businesses, and are more of a net positive to the economy than those who were born here. Trump's demagoguery is very destructive to the nation.

Although there are things Trump has done that I support [honest!], I'm torn between which of his policies I despise more: Ukraine or immigration. History will judge him and his supporters very poorly on both of those. I put his personal and familial corruption in a separate category.

[dabrockster]

Happy Thanksgiving to you too donald

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I originally thought that was a parody post from some mirror account but then realized it was him. I have heard similar backhanded grateful comments from 12 year olds.

[Moliere]

Happy Thanksgiving to you too donald

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tl;dr

[Northwestcoug]

tl;dr

That's probably why the curious independents vote for Trump. They just don't read his shit that he obviously wants to share far and wide. At least I hope that charitable explanation is true.

[BlueK]

Such an embarrassment. It's astonishing how his supporters either believe, or dismiss as unimportant, his ridiculously erroneous claims like "The official United States Foreign population stands at 53 million people (Census), most of which are on welfare, from failed nations, or from prisons, mental institutions, gangs, or drug cartels" [emphasis mine]. A variety of independent sources confirm that foreign-born residents are much less likely to commit a crime, are more likely to generate income from new businesses, and are more of a net positive to the economy than those who were born here. Trump's demagoguery is very destructive to the nation.

Although there are things Trump has done that I support [honest!], I'm torn between which of his policies I despise more: Ukraine or immigration. History will judge him and his supporters very poorly on both of those. I put his personal and familial corruption in a separate category.

No big deal, he's just trolling.

Or...he really is mentally insane.

[frank ryan]

Homeland security is tweeting about remigration.

This should alarm people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remigration

[Northwestcoug]

Dare we call it war crimes now? Wait, silly me, we're not at war. But let's call it what it is, illegal:

The longer the U.S. surveillance aircraftfollowed the boat, the more confident intelligenceanalysts watching from command centers became that the 11 people on board were ferrying drugs.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth gave a spoken directive,according to two people with direct knowledge of the operation. “The order was to kill everybody,” one of them said.

A missile screamed off the Trinidad coast, striking the vessel and igniting a blaze from bow to stern. For minutes, commanders watched the boat burning on a live drone feed. As the smoke cleared, they got a jolt: Two survivors were clinging to the smoldering wreck.

The Special Operations commander overseeing the Sept. 2 attack — the opening salvo in the Trump administration’s war on suspected drug traffickers in the Western Hemisphere — ordered a second strike to comply with Hegseth’s instructions, two people familiar with the matter said. The two men were blown apart in the water.

Meanwhile, Trump is going to pardon the former Honduran president who was convicted of...conspiring to traffic cocaine into the US. Murder for likely indigent people suspected of running drugs, and a pardon for someone at the very top facilitating smuggling. That is about as immoral as you can get.

Every single cabinet member and Trump sycophant should be asked repeatedly why it's OK to kill suspects but pardon who's essentially a cartel boss.

[Moliere]

Homeland security is tweeting about remigration.

This should alarm people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remigration

That’s a link to Wikipedia, not twitter.