The 2020 Presidential Election Primary Thread

[tooblue]

Bro, I'm very sympathetic to your view of Canadian living. But even I cringe at this.

I can accept it is cringe worthy, but it is dogma.

Look, I am proud of my heritage; I am as proud an American as there is. But if we are being honest, there is a lot of exceptionalism in the world that is no way related to the American way of life.

Of course, if the US is truly as exceptional as professed, then there is no way Bernie Sanders, any other Democrat, or for that matter any other individual who strives to inflict universal health care all on the US is going to destroy American democracy. So why are y'all so damned insecure about it. That's what I struggle to fathom.

[Jeff Lebowski]

The 2020 Presidential Election Primary Thread

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[frank ryan]

Is it just me, or are the Bernie supporters a bunch of hyper-aggressive nutjobs? Good heavens, they are vicious when they attack fellow D candidates.

Yes, they can be puritanical and a lot of them are loyal to Bernie more than they are interested in being politically pragmatic. I like Bernie. He’s quixotic but he’s a decent human being. He’d be an intriguing VP candidate.

[myboynoah]

Ummm, Bernie had a heart attack just two months ago. Why does that not disqualify him, or least be a much bigger issue than it is seems to be?

[Pelado]

Ummm, Bernie had a heart attack just two months ago. Why does that not disqualify him, or least be a much bigger issue than it is seems to be?

Because health care in the US is so much better than the care provided in countries with socialized medicine like Canada, that nobody is worried about a relapse. Or, alternatively, they might prefer his VP choice to him.

[ERCougar]

If you are being paid in US dollars, then it's no contest; leave and take full advantage of living abroad and whatever 90th percentile job you can find. But if you are not being paid in US dollars, then it's about buying power. I make a good wage doing what I do for where I live and in context to the current economy. We carry a little too much debt, but otherwise live comfortably.

Bluntly, if I made the same amount I make in US dollars, and if I lived in the US my buying power would be double what it is now. I could save more, retire earlier, and do more with the 44 days paid of vacation I have. That is what I am talking about. We make choices/sacrifices, and one of them is having significantly less disposable income. The payoff is access to universal health care, superior schools from elementary to high school, and generally better infrastructure such as better roads for example.

You sound like the adventurous type, willing to travel and embrace different ways of doing things; someone unconvinced by the dogma of American exceptionalism. But that also means you are an exception, and as such I believe you have misjudged just how many is "plenty of people."

As an "adventurous type", I understand exchange rates. Anyone who is considering moving across the world is going to do the math to see what the real pay is, even if they are called "dollars" (or loonies). Real pay is about half for my specialty, but that's before a generous bonus system. Considering that 1/5 of the year is paid vacation and 1/5 is protected non clinical hours, which are unpaid here, you get 4/5 * 4/5 = 16/25 of the real workload. So you're doing 16/25 the work for 1/2 the pay plus bonus. It's pretty equal pay per unit work, the difference being that there's a bit of a top limit on how much work you can do (also not a terrible idea). And no nights. And a union (oh, that's another things that's coming to American medicine under M4A). Oh yeah, and I had a protected 30 minute lunch break (paid) and 10 minute tea times every two hours (this is unheard of in pretty much any American medicine field).

So if Bernie can reproduce this, I'm in. Instead, he plans to squeeze the same production out of an already burned out and overworked medical force for less pay. And there are a whole lot more very rosy cost assumptions being made. He's setting up a lot of people for disappointment.

[ERCougar]

Yes, they can be puritanical and a lot of them are loyal to Bernie more than they are interested in being politically pragmatic. I like Bernie. He’s quixotic but he’s a decent human being. He’d be an intriguing VP candidate.

I actually really like Bernie too; his supporters, not so much. It's like they have no conception of how democracy works.

[old_gregg]

If you are being paid in US dollars, then it's no contest; leave and take full advantage of living abroad and whatever 90th percentile job you can find. But if you are not being paid in US dollars, then it's about buying power. I make a good wage doing what I do for where I live and in context to the current economy. We carry a little too much debt, but otherwise live comfortably.

Bluntly, if I made the same amount I make in US dollars, and if I lived in the US my buying power would be double what it is now. I could save more, retire earlier, and do more with the 44 days paid of vacation I have. That is what I am talking about. We make choices/sacrifices, and one of them is having significantly less disposable income. The payoff is access to universal health care, superior schools from elementary to high school, and generally better infrastructure such as better roads for example.

You sound like the adventurous type, willing to travel and embrace different ways of doing things; someone unconvinced by the dogma of American exceptionalism. But that also means you are an exception, and as such I believe you have misjudged just how many is "plenty of people."

hey er just so you’re aware dollarydoos are not the same as dollars. hope that helps.

[Mormon Red Death]

In my twenty-five years here, I don't know a single person who has gone to the US for surgery. Further, I don't know a single person who has had to wait too long for any procedure, including myself or my family. In contrast I home taught a woman who is now 104, and had both hips replaced in her 90's. My in-laws are in their late 80's and early 90's respectively. They don't wait for any care. There are no death panels saying let them die.

In the recent past couple of years, I have a close friend (father-in-law to my son) who had a brain aneurysm. He is alive today because of the prompt expert care he received and continues to receive.

Look, I find the fear expressed here of Sanders or any other Democract irrational. Universal health care or any other attempt to expand upon the already existent and extensive socialist programs in the US is not going to destroy US democracy. It is lunacy to believe otherwise. That's why I post; there is a healthy, happy and productive world outside US borders, in developed nations who have figured out how to make universal health care work. It isn't that hard.

I can think of 2 instances from your family where you had to wait for services. You also have mentioned that to get a timely MRI you have to go to the hospital at 3 in the morning.

That being said when I worked in Michigan we had a multi million dollar (>10 million annually) heart suite for Canadians who were forced to wait for care.

For all it's problems the us healthcare system works for most of the people

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[Northwestcoug]

Because health care in the US is so much better than the care provided in countries with socialized medicine like Canada, that nobody is worried about a relapse. Or, alternatively, they might prefer his VP choice to him.

[tooblue]

I can think of 2 instances from your family where you had to wait for services. You also have mentioned that to get a timely MRI you have to go to the hospital at 3 in the morning.

That being said when I worked in Michigan we had a multi million dollar (>10 million annually) heart suite for Canadians who were forced to wait for care.

For all it's problems the us healthcare system works for most of the people

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

Per our brother who is a paediatrician practicing in Utah, we have come to find out we would've waited just as long for those services were we in the states. So, the two instances you might cite are not what you imagine them to be, and well, guess what: the procedures were done in a timely fashion, and with great expertise and effectiveness. Imagine that!

Non essential MRI's you mean, right? Just want to be clear, because if a condition is life-threatening and you need an MRI, you get it same day, same hour, same minute in fact. As was the case with our good friend (your nephew's father-in-law). But if your condition is not life-threatening, and you don't want to wait for what can be long wait times, you can ask to be called at a time when there is a potential lull in demand, say between mid-night and 3:00 am.

Sounds remarkably efficient if you ask me. It's actually great. Parking is easy, you are in and out quickly and back home snug in your bed and up for work the next day, well-rested and with diagnostic in hand.

[tooblue]

Because health care in the US is so much better than the care provided in countries with socialized medicine like Canada, that nobody is worried about a relapse. Or, alternatively, they might prefer his VP choice to him.

[CardiacCoug]

This is what scares me the most. After finishing his residency, my son said that if any of his kids wants to do the med school thing, he would talk them out of it. I think his position will soften over time, but there is a huge personal cost to going that route. And in spite of US salaries, there is still a critical shortage of primary care physicians. My son started with zero patients in a new clinic (internal medicine), and after 18 months he is almost full - 1-2 month wait for new appointments.

Yep the really good primary care doctors have totally full clinics right away. There is a massive shortage of primary care docs and especially excellent ones.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not too long before the good primary care docs like your son are primarily doing “concierge” type practices where every patient pays $2K-$5K cash per year just as a retainer to be a patient and then they let insurance be billed on top of that.. That system enables the docs to do a really good job of taking care of a smaller number of highly motivated patients.

[CardiacCoug]

Bernie is such a dummy.

He says here on CNN that he wants to have federal “rent control” that applies to the entire country.

Without even lookin it up, hasn’t rent control been a disaster in big cities, leading to massive housing shortages? I thought not even liberals support it these days.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Bernie is such a dummy.

He says here on CNN that he wants to have federal “rent control” that applies to the entire country.

Without even lookin it up, hasn’t rent control been a disaster in big cities, leading to massive housing shortages? I thought not even liberals support it these days.

Yes, of course. Rent control is a disaster with all kinds of bad consequences. Another insane idea from Bernie.