The 2020 Presidential Election Primary Thread

[ERCougar]

You may think it's just dandy for a heart attack or cancer patient with no insurance to get a 100k bill and have to beg the hospital for a discount or forgiveness of the loan, or, failing that, seek bankruptcy protection so he can feed his family. Or, for an inner city uninsured mother to have to take her kid with the flu to the emergency room and beg for treatment. I think it's callous if not cruel, and with this attitude you're defining yourself as possessing all the negative characteristics with which urbanites caricaturize cowboys from Wyoming.

This attitude is also why we have a big risk of electing a communist next election. Had Republicans supported the ACA--again, with private markets, state regulation, and choice--there would be no Communist campaign built on single payor that is the democratic front runner. Get real.

Well, I have a job waiting for me on a beach in New Zealand. And there are plenty more through New Zealand, Australia, and the UK. I hear there are jobs in Canada too, although I haven't looked. And that's for someone who wants to keep doing clinical medicine. As you can imagine, there's not a small demand for clinical experience and expertise in pharmaceuticals, medical device companies, electronic medical record software, healthcare investment, just off the top of my head. You *will* have a mass exodus, and at a time when the country can't really afford it.

[ERCougar]

My point is not that enough people are insured. It's that everyone needs to be insured even if they can't afford it, or receive a subsidy to the extent they can't afford it. That is the ACA's model, without doing any violence to the good elements of the current system. The problem is that the left and right wings have both been working to undermine it. Unlike any other proposal, Romneycare actually can work.

I don't disagree here--ACA is the most workable solution. I've even seen a proposal that expands it to simulate Medicare for all where the government would give everyone a HSA deposit (spendable only one healthcare) equal to their deductible each year. I don't remember many of the details, but that keeps some cost awareness, without making it a dominant consideration, since the money has to be used on healthcare anyway.

[Northwestcoug]

Well, I have a job waiting for me on a beach in New Zealand. And there are plenty more through New Zealand, Australia, and the UK. I hear there are jobs in Canada too, although I haven't looked. And that's for someone who wants to keep doing clinical medicine. As you can imagine, there's not a small demand for clinical experience and expertise in pharmaceuticals, medical device companies, electronic medical record software, healthcare investment, just off the top of my head. You *will* have a mass exodus, and at a time when the country can't really afford it.

There will be an exodus, no doubt. But I'm not so sure on the 'mass' part. There's only a few beautiful places on earth paying premium dollar for docs. Most other places make it competitive, but they're still offering a salary. So if we all become salaried state employees here, there's not likely going to be a huge movement to get a salary elsewhere, unless you're moving to a beach. Or if you have a connection to another country.

[tooblue]

There will be an exodus, no doubt. But I'm not so sure on the 'mass' part. There's only a few beautiful places on earth paying premium dollar for docs. Most other places make it competitive, but they're still offering a salary. So if we all become salaried state employees here, there's not likely going to be a huge movement to get a salary elsewhere, unless you're moving to a beach. Or if you have a connection to another country.

This is no different than every celebrity who swore they would leave the US if Trump was elected. How many actually left:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/22/move-to-canada-celebrities-donald-trump

The one thing that did happen is this:

Still, some groups have been flocking to Canada in substantial numbers in the wake of Trump taking power. In the first 11 months of 2017, the number of applications by Americans to study in Canada swelled by 29%, to 3,057, compared with the 2,363 received in all of 2016.

Our student in-take next fall will exceed 200 for programs that three years ago were budgeted for an in-take of 30 to 50 students maximum. 80% of the 200 students we will admit next fall are international students.

[Commando]

This is no different than every celebrity who swore they would leave the US if Trump was elected. How many actually left:

Except celebrities aren't being paid to move out of the country.


Also, New Zealand and its beaches are beautiful, but the water is ice cold. Better make that Australia.

[tooblue]

Except celebrities aren't being paid to move out of the country.


Also, New Zealand and its beaches are beautiful, but the water is ice cold. Better make that Australia.

A New Zealand dollar is worth 64 cents US. The Canadian dollar at the moment is worth 75 cents, but I have lived through times when it was only worth 64 cents. 300k in New Zealand dollars is not the same as 300k US dollars.

Pragmatically speaking, the situation dictates there will not be an exodus.

[Northwestcoug]

A New Zealand dollar is worth 64 cents US. The Canadian dollar at the moment is worth 75 cents, but I have lived through times when it was only worth 64 cents. 300k in New Zealand dollars is not the same as 300k US dollars.

Pragmatically speaking, the situation dictates there will not be an exodus.

I got my US student loans while I lived in Canada during that time. My school debt thanks Canada for that time of relative economic downturn!

[frank ryan]

Bernie is not Stalin. Lol.

[SeattleUte]

Bernie is not Stalin. Lol.

Bernie believes that only the collective matters. Individualism is a disease that needs to be purged. I heard Jane Fonda say this on NPR just the other day (she's quite possibly the most un-self aware person ever). Bernie would kill outliers like me if he could because it's all about the collective. Lose yourself in it or die.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Bernie is not Stalin. Lol.

Agreed. More like Maduro.

[SeattleUte]

This is what Bernie's ideology always leads to.

https://m.jpost.com/American-Politics/Sanders-staffer-said-he-supports-armed-revolution-and-killing-the-rich-615277/amp

[Jeff Lebowski]

There will be an exodus, no doubt. But I'm not so sure on the 'mass' part. There's only a few beautiful places on earth paying premium dollar for docs. Most other places make it competitive, but they're still offering a salary. So if we all become salaried state employees here, there's not likely going to be a huge movement to get a salary elsewhere, unless you're moving to a beach. Or if you have a connection to another country.

I am not sure how big the exodus would be, but that isn't the main issue. How many fewer people will decide not to pursue medicine as a career?

[tooblue]

This is what Bernie's ideology always leads to.

https://m.jpost.com/American-Politic...ich-615277/amp

I am asking with absolute sincerity: are you trolling? You have to be, the link is just too funny. I am literally laughing so hard I am in tears.

[Northwestcoug]

I am not sure how big the exodus would be, but that isn't the main issue. How many fewer people will decide not to pursue medicine as a career?

That's a good question also. I think it depends on if we can get a handle on financing medical school. If tuition is better controlled, then a smaller salary is not as big of deterrent. My daughter and her cohort of med school applicants made a lot of tough decisions about where to apply, that I never had to. That's not only because of the surge in tuition, but because of higher interest rates for loans.

I should say also, medicine has been deterring applicants for years. The main factors I hear local clinicians bitch about most are dealing with insurance companies, hospital bureaucracy, and governmental regulations. It's not the money, at least currently.

[snowcat]

NHS staff can refuse to treat racist or sexist patients under new rules

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff...snt-sf-twitter

Sexist and racist patients could be barred from non-emergency care at NHS trusts, under new rules to be enforced from April.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock wrote to all NHS staff on Tuesday to announce stronger measures to investigate abuse and harassment towards staff, saying "no act of violence or abuse is minor".

Also from this article:

A separate survey published by the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman found that one in five mental health patients do not feel safe in NHS care.
More than half of people with mental health problems in England also said their treatment was delayed, while 42% said they were diagnosed too late.