You are warned, Hallelujah

[JohnnyLingo]

Compared to my conservative brethren I am "soft" on immigration and think we should find a path to citizenship for those already here -- excluding criminals. Something also needs to be added to the process that inflicts a little pain so we are not rewarding the illegal entry. Most proposals include something along those lines.

Sure, the government will give current illegals amnesty, but just like what happened with Reagan, nothing else will change.

My concern about Hispanic immigration has to do with assimilation. The pace of Hispanic immigration over the last 20 years is unsustainable if we want to assimilate the immigrants -- which I think is the magic process underlying our "melting pot." American culture is powerful and will assimilate most groups over time, including adopting many of their folkways and this enriching out own. I just worry that we are going to have huge social problems down the road unless we can stem the tide.

Prepare to be called a racist. Not by me, mind you, but to many of our liberal friends, asking people who come to America to assimilate into our culture is pretty much the same as asking them to shoot themselves in the head.

[byu71]

Now we just need to figure out how we can classify ourselves as victims, '71, then we can go loot. I want a new TV. Are you in?

I don't know about you, but I am old enough now I take things and then if I get caught I just tell them I didn't know I took it. They just say, "he is old, just let him go."

[Solon]

I don't know about you, but I am old enough now I take things and then if I get caught I just tell them I didn't know I took it. They just say, "he is old, just let him go."

You and Uncle Leo, I guess.

[wuapinmon]

Fair enough. I am one of the few on here that will admit I am intellectually in the inferior on this site. Most folks ARE smarter than me when it comes to book smarts in this community. So I do tend to get defensive at times. If that was not your intention I apologize.

I served an English speaking mission in the US. I spent 9 months of that as an ASL Elder. I worked with a "minority" group, but of a different kind.

I live in Bakersfield, California. The hub of illegal immigration. I am not a huge fan. I live in a town that is going to have to cut police/fire/EMT budgets by 20-25% this next fiscal year because of the state of Emergency that California finds itself in.

I am not going to place blame, or Government short sightedness.

I am an idiot sometimes. I bought my house 9 years ago for 120k. 4 years ago some dude was buying houses up in my neighborhood for 350k cash. I turned it down. Stupidest thing I ever did. But...4 years later everyone in my neighborhood is losing their house. Not us.

Most of the houses in my neighborhood though have 2-3 families living in them now. Most of them non-english speaking families from Mexico or farther south. They have broken down vehicles in their driveways and in their yards and in front of their houses. They have people living in tent trailers in their driveways. It isn't a pretty picture. It makes me want to move.

Does that make me shallow? Maybe.

But I live in a county that is going to cut its safety budget by 25%, but has been explicitly instructed not to cut migrant services.

That is shitty, and that is what creates most of the animosity to the illegals and the situation they are in.

I was born White. Not of my chosing, but I am not going to feel guilty becuase of it.

I have to ask what the economy of Bakersfield would be like if there were no immigrants to work in the fields......how would that labor need be met?

[Indy Coug]

I have to ask what the economy of Bakersfield would be like if there were no immigrants to work in the fields......how would that labor need be met?

The market would adjust.

[JohnnyLingo]

I have to ask what the economy of Bakersfield would be like if there were no immigrants to work in the fields......how would that labor need be met?

Today, unemployment is high enough that citizens are willing to work these jobs.

Also: teenagers. My brothers and brothers-in-law spend summers doing manual labor, just like I did back in high school.

[wuapinmon]

The market would adjust.

The market did adjust.....otherwise all these jobs would go overseas....because the wages can only rise so high before it becomes uneconomical to grow onions in California.

Today, unemployment is high enough that citizens are willing to work these jobs.

Also: teenagers. My brothers and brothers-in-law spend summers doing manual labor, just like I did back in high school.

As an employer, do you want to pay someone without experience to work, or a seasoned veteran who you know will come back year after year and not just until the economy picks back up. Teenagers are not a consistent and reliable labor pool. Americans doing manual labor, especially in the fields, are not as hard of workers---in my personal experience---as people who are desperate for a better life.

This book provides an excellent breakdown of America's long history of labor shortages and why we've sought out innovation, efficiency, and concentration as ways to overcome workforce capacity deficits.

[CJF]

This is an interesting thread to me. Immigration and the US policy has been a big part of my life the last 2.5 years. It's impacted my family greatly. Here are a few of my thoughts on the topic:

1- A few years before 9/11 the US looked for ways to add jobs to and to stimulate the economy especially in hard hit areas of the country. What happened was several call centers were created and staffed with minimum wage employees who are not given access to the Immigration systems. This creates a lot of bottle necks.

2- USCIS has lost a lot of the local say in things. Everything goes through National clearing houses now. I've worked with two local USICS departments and both of them gave me the same story. National clearing houses are told to stall out the process.

3- Getting a visa to visit let alone to move to the US is expensive and completely up to the person doing the interview. People representing the US in our embassies are an embarrassment. They're rude and my wife was rejected her first time applying. The cost was $100 USD. This is about two weeks of wages for the average Filipino. No reason was given. When she asked why she was ignored and the agent in the glass box just kept asking for the next applicatant. She applied again and again paid the fee. I went with her the second time and she received a visa. Now mind you, we were legally married at the time and had submitted her permanent residency paper work to the USCIS but she was still originally rejected from visiting the US.

4- My wife has now received a Green Card. The total cost of legally obtaining that document not including legal fees was a little over $2000. Obviously this was a need for our family and we were blessed enough to be in position to pay the fees, but how many in third world countries have $2000 and two years to four years of wait time available? The US has turned immigration into a money maker and it is causing a lot of own problems.

5- This is a great country. There but the US doesn't have a patent on talented, hard working, honorable citizens. This country was founded on open arms and opportunity for all. That ship has sailed by and large and it is sad. Now immigrants are looked at as criminals when 100 years ago they were success stories. We've taken the human element out of the decision making. The impact that it has on families goes unspoken by media and politicians for the most part. That is disappointing.

[byu71]

This is an interesting thread to me. Immigration and the US policy has been a big part of my life the last 2.5 years. It's impacted my family greatly. Here are a few of my thoughts on the topic:

1- A few years before 9/11 the US looked for ways to add jobs to and to stimulate the economy especially in hard hit areas of the country. What happened was several call centers were created and staffed with minimum wage employees who are not given access to the Immigration systems. This creates a lot of bottle necks.

2- USICS has lost a lot of the local say in things. Everything goes through National clearing houses now. I've worked with two local USICS departments and both of them gave me the same story. National clearing houses are told to stall out the process.

3- Getting a visa to visit let alone to move to the US is expensive and completely up to the person doing the interview. People representing the US in our embassies are an embarrassment. They're rude and my wife was rejected her first time applying. The cost was $100 USD. This is about two weeks of wages for the average Filipino. No reason was given. When she asked why she was ignored and the agent in the glass box just kept asking for the next applicatant. She applied again and again paid the fee. I went with her the second time and she received a visa. Now mind you, we were legally married at the time and had submitted her permanent residency paper work to the USCIS.

4- My wife has now received a Green Card. The total cost of legally obtaining that document not including legal fees was a little over $2000. Obviously this was a need for our family and we were blessed enough to be in position to pay the fees, but how many in third world countries have $2000 and two years to four years of wait time available? The US has turned immigration into a money maker and it is causing a lot of own problems.

5- This is a great country. There but the US doesn't have a patent on talented, hard working, honorable citizens. This country was founded on open arms and opportunity for all. That ship has sailed by and large and it is sad. Now immigrants are looked at as criminals when 100 years ago they were success stories. We've taken the human element out of the decision making. The impact that it has on families goes unspoken by media and politicians for the most part. That is disappointing.

I haven't heard to many glowing testimonials when people deal with government employees and agencies. I am sure there are some out there, but I haven't heard them. That is why I am so excited to have health care turned over to the government. One more major government agency to deal with.

[il Padrino Ute]

I haven't heard to many glowing testimonials when people deal with government employees and agencies.

Bureaucrats do not believe in customer service.

[JohnnyLingo]

I can only assume our government likes the fact that there are thousands (millions?) of workers willing to do stuff like pick fruit and don't have to be watched out for.

Why else leave the border open? Why else make legally coming here such a pain?

Either it's sheer incompetence or evil. Take your pick.

[wuapinmon]

I can only assume our government likes the fact that there are thousands (millions?) of workers willing to do stuff like pick fruit and don't have to be watched out for.

Why else leave the border open? Why else make legally coming here such a pain?

Either it's sheer incompetence or evil. Take your pick.

Good grief, man. How old are you? Di you really just see the world in binary pairs all the time? It's like you're Bush and Derrida's lovechild.

[JohnnyLingo]

Good grief, man. How old are you? Di you really just see the world in binary pairs all the time? It's like you're Bush and Derrida's lovechild.

Good hell, what is it with people reading a post or two of mine and assuming they have an accurate understanding of me?

Do I need to link to posts where I acknowledge there is a lot of gray in the world, or do you want to retract your statement?

In the meantime, offer me a third alternative for why the U.S. government is not in the least bit interested in resolving the problem of illegal immigration. I guarantee every answer falls under incompetence or evil (in some degree).

[wuapinmon]

Good hell, what is it with people reading a post or two of mine and assuming they have an accurate understanding of me?

Do I need to link to posts where I acknowledge there is a lot of gray in the world, or do you want to retract your statement?

In the meantime, offer me a third alternative for why the U.S. government is not in the least bit interested in resolving the problem of illegal immigration. I guarantee every answer falls under incompetence or evil (in some degree).

Because the government isn't a single entity, it's a bunch of elected politicians, each thinking of re-election. It's not incompetence, it's status quo, and until the will or the outcry of the people is strong enough, nothing will happen because both sides are entrenched. And you have been on a real black vs. white kick lately....maybe you should link some more moderate takes on things.

[byu71]

Good hell, what is it with people reading a post or two of mine and assuming they have an accurate understanding of me?

Do I need to link to posts where I acknowledge there is a lot of gray in the world, or do you want to retract your statement?

In the meantime, offer me a third alternative for why the U.S. government is not in the least bit interested in resolving the problem of illegal immigration. I guarantee every answer falls under incompetence or evil (in some degree).

There are some people who if you don't agree with their opinion on an issue such as immigration, it automatically makes you a biggot or racist. Same thing happens if you don't agree with their opinion on gay marriage. They have become so enamored with their opinion, that anything contrary to that means the other person can be called names for having the opposing opinion.

After a couple of back and forths, if you haven't convinced them you aren't a racist, biggot or homo-phobe, you will continue to waste your breath.