WTF are you thinking George Will? It isn't cool to be a victim of sexual assault.

[All-American]

I don't understand why you such skepticism of rates of sexual abuse. It strikes that it is your de facto position. It is horrific and dismissing the reported rates of abuse can disempower or leave the victims feeling further isolated.

Thus, due process for none.

[frank ryan]

Thus, due process for none.

What does that have to do with due process ?

[All-American]

What does that have to do with due process ?

Exactly.

[Mormon Red Death]

Isn't the problem with the, statistics is that it's, so hard to determine what is sexual assault?

[frank ryan]

Exactly.

Why are you being all sorts of condescending ?

[woot]

I don't understand why you such skepticism of rates of sexual abuse. It strikes that it is your de facto position. It is horrific and dismissing the reported rates of abuse can disempower or leave the victims feeling further isolated.

I understand this attitude, but it nevertheless leads to problems. Regardless of good intentions, fudging facts damages credibility and hurts the cause.

[All-American]

Why are you being all sorts of condescending ?

You're reading me wrong. There's nothing wrong with being anti-rape.

[frank ryan]

Is anyone else troubled with him stating that being a rape victim on college campuses is a coveted position ?

[Joe Public]

Is anyone else troubled with him stating that being a rape victim on college campuses is a coveted position ?

That isn't what he said. I don't think anyone here is arguing that people want to be raped, either.

[frank ryan]

That isn't what he said. I don't think anyone here is arguing that people want to be raped, either.

He acuses academia of making victimhood re. sexual abuse, a coveted status

[CardiacCoug]

Haven't some of you been aware of LDS women who take things a little too far with their boyfriend, feel guilty about it, and then either consciously lie or delude themselves into thinking they were sexually assaulted?

I knew a nutso girl in HS who claimed that a guy had sexually assaulted her and it was clearly an attempt to get attention and sympathy, or possibly to assuage guilt.

You can also get money for claiming to be raped. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...eorge.html.csp

[MarkGrace]

Haven't some of you been aware of LDS women who take things a little too far with their boyfriend, feel guilty about it, and then either consciously lie or delude themselves into thinking they were sexually assaulted?

I knew a nutso girl in HS who claimed that a guy had sexually assaulted her and it was clearly an attempt to get attention and sympathy, or possibly to assuage guilt.

You can also get money for claiming to be raped. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...eorge.html.csp

Wasn't there an issue at BYU where a girl claimed this so she wouldn't get kicked out for having consensual sex?

[frank ryan]

Haven't some of you been aware of LDS women who take things a little too far with their boyfriend, feel guilty about it, and then either consciously lie or delude themselves into thinking they were sexually assaulted?

I knew a nutso girl in HS who claimed that a guy had sexually assaulted her and it was clearly an attempt to get attention and sympathy, or possibly to assuage guilt.

You can also get money for claiming to be raped. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...eorge.html.csp

sure that happens. Aren't you aware of victims (men and women) who out of shame, guilt or fear held back the stories of what has happened ?

[ERCougar]

Haven't some of you been aware of LDS women who take things a little too far with their boyfriend, feel guilty about it, and then either consciously lie or delude themselves into thinking they were sexually assaulted?

I knew a nutso girl in HS who claimed that a guy had sexually assaulted her and it was clearly an attempt to get attention and sympathy, or possibly to assuage guilt.

You can also get money for claiming to be raped. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...eorge.html.csp

Frank, go read Will's column. To call Salon's depiction anything close to accurate is pretty dumb, or at least reveals you didn't really read the article.
That said, I think Will's blithe treatment of sexual assault belies a real lack of empathy. That he thinks the example of the girl who said no and then after repeated attempts, just "let him finish" shows a too harsh judgment of appropriate behavior is, well... concerning. He just doesn't get it.
I have no idea what the true incidence of sexual assault is on campus. I see plenty of alleged victims in the ER and while I try to stay out of guilt/responsibility questions (it's not my job and the last thing I want to do is to spend more unpaid time in court), my experience has left me a little skeptical/jaded. On the other hand, Frank is seeing a much higher proportion of true victims, and I don't doubt there are a large number who don't report for a number of reasons. So the real number is probably somewhere between our two impressions. If we're talking violent rape against an innocent victim who did nothing to suggest she wanted any sort of interaction, then one in five seems far too high. If we're talking having sex with a prior girlfriend in bed who already told you no, or about having sex with a girl who's too drunk to say no, or about copping an uninvited feel at a party, then one in five is a lot more believable. I have no idea what the legal definition of sexual assault is, but I don't think any of those behaviors are ok, and I think administration should be pretty aggressive about dealing with complaints about them. If students get the message that they should be pretty damn sure that their partner truly wants to have sex before they go at it, that's not a bad thing.

[cowboy]

It seems that folks are talking past each other and confusing two distinct, and perhaps mutually exclusive, groups in this thread. One group of people have been sexually assaulted. All of them feel a degree of shame and carry emotional wounds from their experience. Out of shame, fear, or whatever, some do not report or even admit their experiences, which is unfortunate on several levels. I'd bet virtually nobody who has really been sexually abused or assaulted is glad it happened because now they're getting attention. The other group of people is the group the George Will crowd is talking about - people who have not been assaulted but claim to be for the attention. Unfortunately, pointing this group of people out casts doubt on everyone in the first group who comes forward, and probably keeps people in the first group from coming forward. This is why Will should have picked another topic to write about.