WTF are you thinking George Will? It isn't cool to be a victim of sexual assault.

[frank ryan]

There is no positive to spin his latest column. It is horrible.http://www.salon.com/2014/06/09/geor...rs_privileges/

[Donuthole]

There is no positive to spin his latest column. It is horrible.http://www.salon.com/2014/06/09/geor...rs_privileges/

That salon take is definitely spin on his latest column. There is a lot of truth to what Will says, which is one of the reasons it's going to upset some people.

[frank ryan]

That salon take is definitely spin on his latest column. There is a lot of truth to what Will says, which is one of the reasons it's going to upset some people.

Like what? Explain how being sexually assaulted is a coveted status?

[Donuthole]

Like what?

Like the numbers don't add up. Sorry, but I don't believe 20% of women are true victims of sexual assault.

Explain how being sexually assaulted is a coveted status?

Being sexually assaulted is not coveted, of course, but special treatment is always coveted. If you don't think victims of sexual assault are given preferential treatment/status on a lot of things, then we probably don't need to take this discussion much further. For the record, Will isn't saying people want to be sexually assaulted, and he's not saying that true victims of sexual assault don't deserve special attention and accommodations. He's saying that people are trying to get the sympathy and special attention that come with being a sexual assault victim, but without the baggage of actually being a victim.

It's anecdotal, but I am personally aware of a girl who used alleged sexual assault as an excuse to get an extra month to complete her term papers. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't heard her bragging about it in the library. This was nearly 15 years ago, so she was arguably ahead of the game on this.

The true crux of his argument is that fostering hypersensitivity to this stuff is an easy way to feed the state:

It is salutary that academia, with its adversarial stance toward limited government and cultural common sense, is making itself ludicrous. Academia is learning that its attempts to create victim-free campuses — by making everyone hypersensitive, even delusional, about victimizations — brings increasing supervision by the regulatory state that progressivism celebrates.

I agree with that logic.

[frank ryan]

Like the numbers don't add up. Sorry, but I don't believe 20% of women are true victims of sexual assault.


Being sexually assaulted is not coveted, of course, but special treatment is always coveted. If you don't think victims of sexual assault are given preferential treatment/status on a lot of things, then we probably don't need to take this discussion much further. For the record, Will isn't saying people want to be sexually assaulted, and he's not saying that true victims of sexual assault don't deserve special attention and accommodations. He's saying that people are trying to get the sympathy and special attention that come with being a sexual assault victim, but without the baggage of actually being a victim.

It's anecdotal, but I am personally aware of a girl who used alleged sexual assault as an excuse to get an extra month to complete her term papers. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't heard her bragging about it in the library. This was nearly 15 years ago, so she was arguably ahead of the game on this.

The true crux of his argument is that fostering hypersensitivity to this stuff is an easy way to feed the state:



I agree with that logic.

Donuthole because of my work I have a strong opinion that sexual assault is understated if anything. It is unfortunately ubiquitous. The anecdote you shared an the one Will shared do zero to support your shared opinion.
No one wants to be victim of sexual assault because they covet the status. Will didn't do much to differentiate between someone who would lie about being raped and someone who was assaulted. That is a disturbing that you are readily so dismissive of the statistics.

[Donuthole]

Donuthole because of my work I have a strong opinion that sexual assault is understated if anything.

Will agrees that it is understated. However, even using the 12% reporting statistics, you don't get anywhere near 1 in 5.

No one wants to be victim of sexual assault because they covet the status.

Again, Will isn't saying that anyone wants to actually be a victim of sexual assault. But if that status affords her social relief, many are willing to make the trade i.e. willing to claim sexual assault where there is none if the claim helps her in some way. I wish we had an ER doctor here who could opine about how many young women claim sexual assault to avoid parental punishment.

[Omaha 680]

The 20% number has always seemed high to me. When you run down the numbers like Will did, it doesn't seem to hold up. Anyone know how they are getting that 20% figure? The links in the Salon column didn't take me anywhere useful. It bugs me when advocates take real issues like sexual assault and inflate the numbers. The same thing has happened in the past with issues like homelessness. Sexual assault and homelessness are real problems. I don't see how overstating the numbers helps the real victims.

Also, the Salon spin is much different than what Will actually wrote.

[wally]

Again, Will isn't saying that anyone wants to actually be a victim of sexual assault. But if that status affords them social relief, they are willing to make the trade.

I think what DH is trying to say here is that if he were offered enough money he would acquiesce to being violated by a large hairy man.

[frank ryan]

The 20% number has always seemed high to me. When you run down the numbers like Will did, it doesn't seem to hold up. Anyone know how they are getting that 20% figure? The links in the Salon column didn't take me anywhere useful. It bugs me when advocates take real issues like sexual assault and inflate the numbers. The same thing has happened in the past with issues like homelessness. Sexual assault and homelessness are real problems. I don't see how overstating the numbers helps the real victims.

Also, the Salon spin is much different than what Will actually wrote.

I have read his shitty column. The US Bureau of Justice statistics reports those numbers. Will cherry picked the numbers he used. Keep in mind colleges don't like having high rates of rape. If you want to think like Will, crime stats don't mean anything and are way over reported across the board.

And his column is where the spin lies.

[Omaha 680]

I found where the 20% figure originated pretty easily. Fact check by WP: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...his-statistic/

On its Web site, the National Institute of Justice notes that rapes and other forms of sexual assault are among the most underreported crimes, but that “researchers have been unable to determine the precise incidence of sexual assault on American campuses because the incidence found depends on how the questions are worded and the context of the survey.” It said that two parallel surveys of American college women were conducted in 1997 and came up with very different results, with one survey showing rapes were 11 times higher than the percentage in the other survey. The reason appears to be because of how the questions were worded.

The Pinocchio Test

We are not going to make a ruling at this time, pending additional information. As an interesting article from the University of Minnesota-Duluth newspaper makes clear, sexual violence is too rarely reported. So the White House should be applauded for calling attention to this issue.

But readers should be aware that this oft-cited statistic comes from a Web-based survey of two large universities, making it problematic to suggest that it is representative of the experience of all college women.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I have read his shitty column. The US Bureau of Justice statistics reports those numbers. Will cherry picked the numbers he used. Keep in mind colleges don't like having high rates of rape. If you want to think like Will, crime stats don't mean anything and are way over reported across the board.

And his column is where the spin lies.

Frank, so you don't have a problem with the kangaroo courts set up on these campuses where they kick a student out merely on a preponderance of the evidence standard? Additionally the deck is stacked against the accused during the evidence gathering process so a preponderance can be found merely because the girl says so.

BYU's Honor Code Office is a model of due process in contrast.

Because sexual assault adjudications have become a proxy for the womens' rights movement, these schools have decided that due process considerations can be tossed out the window. There has been a recent slew of lawsuits against universities filed by men because of this. "Progressive" doesn't always equal adherence to the "good" civil rights. Since they have no use for the second amendment, they have no problem tossing out due process when the politics calls for it.

[frank ryan]

I found where the 20% figure originated pretty easily. Fact check by WP: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...his-statistic/

whether it happens in college or not, one in four women gets sexually assaulted. Most the assaults happens before they are 30.
Attempted sexual is awful too and plenty traumatizing. I really don't understand your perspective.

[frank ryan]

Frank, so you don't have a problem with the kangaroo courts set up on these campuses where they kick a student out merely on a preponderance of the evidence standard? Additionally the deck is stacked against the accused during the evidence gathering process so a preponderance can be found merely because the girl says so.

BYU's Honor Code Office is a model of due process in contrast.

Because sexual assault adjudications have become a proxy for the womens' rights movement, these schools have decided that due process considerations can be tossed out the window. There has been a recent slew of lawsuits against universities filed by men because of this. "Progressive" doesn't always equal adherence to the "good" civil rights. Since they have no use for the second amendment, they have no problem tossing out due process when the politics calls for it.

Is that what I said? That I don't in due process?

[Omaha 680]

whether it happens in college or not, one in four women gets sexually assaulted. Most the assaults happens before they are 30.
Attempted sexual is awful too and plenty traumatizing. I really don't understand your perspective.

What do you think my perspective is? I agree that sexual assault is horrific and I want to help prevent it and help the victims. Is it impossible to simultaneously wonder if some of the stats are overstated?

[frank ryan]

What do you think my perspective is? I agree that sexual assault is horrific and I want to help prevent it and help the victims. Is it impossible to simultaneously wonder if some of the stats are overstated?

I don't understand why you such skepticism of rates of sexual abuse. It strikes that it is your de facto position. It is horrific and dismissing the reported rates of abuse can disempower or leave the victims feeling further isolated.