US 14th in Education according to recent study

[imanihonjin]

<rant>In the late 1950's, politicians began demanding accountability from educational dollars spent. Over the next decade, they tied funding to accreditation. Infused with power and money, the non-elected accrediting bodies became emboldened by their fiat and started requiring that things be done a certain way to equalize what was learned everywhere. In February of 1985, the leading accrediting body, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS) began enforcing "assessments" on schools that wanted accreditation. SACS is run by pedagogues and the fruits of their labors are literal pedagoguery. Thirty years since assessments (making sure you're getting the results you want from a course) have turned education into a series of Stalinist Five Year Plans, "Students WILL know how to X" at the completion of this course. It all sounds good on paper, but the offspring of the policies are standardized tests and teaching to the tests.

If you want to improve education in this country, uncouple federal and state funding from accreditation (or redo what it means to be accredited). Take the power away from the pedagogues. I find it fascinating that we let unelected accrediting bodies control our national educational policies. They put into place their theories over the last fifty years and education has declined greatly in public schools since we entrusted them with making sure our tax dollars are well spent. They are not.

14th is great. If you got rid of required curriculums and state standards and all that other bullshit, you'd have smarter people going into teaching, you'd lose probably 1-2 positions per school ($$$$ spent on making sure assessments and standards are completed and met), and allow classes like ethics, civics, free enterprise, and other topics that are no longer taught to reappear.

Education is a massive business, and the pedagogues are pimps for the politicians and textbook companies.

</rant>

You may be right, but we all know that would never happen. The power of the purse is too powerful for politicians to give away.

[Uncle Ted]

I don't believe that education problems in America are a function of dollars spent.

The problem is that kids aren't taught to think critically. This is also the problem with science education in America. To the average kid, science class is about learning random trivia when it should be a subject where kids actually learn how to think about what it really means for something to be true and to design experiments that actually answer questions.

Yes, colleges should require all students to get an undergrad degree in engineering or one of the hard sciences. Everyone knows that engineers make the best business leaders...

Why engineers make great CEOs

The corporate titans who lead Australia’s top 50 companies are as likely to have degrees in engineering as ones in business or economics, according to a recent Leading Company analysis. Nor is it only Australian mining conglomerates where engineers are rising to the top. Around the world a combination of engineering experience with an MBA from a top business school tends to be a common path to the corner office. Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella is an engineer. So are General Motors’ Mary Barra and Amazon’s Jeff Bezos, and the list goes on.


In fact, engineering long has ranked as the most common undergraduate degree among Fortune 500 CEOs. Even Klaus Schwab, founder and executive chairman of the World Economic Forum, has an engineering Ph.D under his belt.
[…]
Engineers, in general, are good at attention to detail, problem-solving, numeracy, risk management and analysis. On the flip side, many may lack emotional intelligence and the necessary leadership, people-management and communication abilities, soft skills which can be addressed by training to assist their transition into the management arena.
[…]

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-features/tp-opportunities/why-engineers-make-great-ceos/article5984318.ece

As for everyone else… "Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too.."

[Goatnapper'96]

Yes, colleges should require all students to get an undergrad degree in engineering or one of the hard sciences. Everyone knows that engineers make the best business leaders...

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-features/tp-opportunities/why-engineers-make-great-ceos/article5984318.ece

As for everyone else… "Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too.."

I have a theory that anyone, or most people, willing to study legitimate (I had to take an engineering track at West Point so I guessed I minored in "Systems Engineering" which was certainly not a legitimate engineering discipline and likely not a legitimate academic discipline at all) engineering in college are autistic to some degree. I also believe similarly about most really highly motivated overachieving Type A's. To be honest I feel likewise about folks who run marathons, do triathlons and I guess many of the participants on this venue.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I have a theory that anyone, or most people, willing to study legitimate (I had to take an engineering track at West Point so I guessed I minored in "Systems Engineering" which was certainly not a legitimate engineering discipline and likely not a legitimate academic discipline at all) engineering in college are autistic to some degree. I also believe similarly about most really highly motivated overachieving Type A's. To be honest I feel likewise about folks who run marathons, do triathlons and I guess many of the participants on this venue.

Sounds like autism is a real blessing!

Someone should notify Jenny McCarthy right away.

[Solon]

Sounds like autism is a real blessing!

Someone should notify Jenny McCarthy right away.

One of the problems with these comparative studies is that the US tests more of its young people than other countries. While other nations track their kids early on towards vocational or technical training, the US continues to educate all of its students (or practically all of them) as if they were college bound.

It's a good thing about US culture that we essentially believe all kids should have a chance and we eschew determining kids' futures for them. If that means a lower score on an international scale, so be it. Democracy is dependent on the lowest common denominator. Our cream still rises to the top.

[Mormon Red Death]

Students who want to get by with the minimum. Teachers who are counting the days until retirement, and absentee parents. We have the ability and tradition to teach the students sufficient data as well as the means to analyze and to think critically. It's just that not enough students are doing it for us to keep our economic place in the world.

I'm sure no other country has this problem

[YOhio]

The real problem is the collective effort of all concerned, students, parents, and teachers. As we all know, there are some fantastic students out there, some amazing teachers and plenty of parents who care. These are the students who excel. However, there also seem to be currents fighting improvement.

Students who want to get by with the minimum. Teachers who are counting the days until retirement, and absentee parents. We have the ability and tradition to teach the students sufficient data as well as the means to analyze and to think critically. It's just that not enough students are doing it for us to keep our economic place in the world.

Seems like a lot of kids need to learn that school is cool. They're so interested in whatever new gadget and device is out there for texting and video games that they lose sight of what's really important. Learning. BTW, access to information is NOT knowledge and/or wisdom.

[Topper]

One of the problems with these comparative studies is that the US tests more of its young people than other countries. While other nations track their kids early on towards vocational or technical training, the US continues to educate all of its students (or practically all of them) as if they were college bound.

It's a good thing about US culture that we essentially believe all kids should have a chance and we eschew determining kids' futures for them. If that means a lower score on an international scale, so be it. Democracy is dependent on the lowest common denominator. Our cream still rises to the top.

You always provide food for thought. I assumed we had compared apples to apples.

[Topper]

Seems like a lot of kids need to learn that school is cool. They're so interested in whatever new gadget and device is out there for texting and video games that they lose sight of what's really important. Learning. BTW, access to information is NOT knowledge and/or wisdom.

Well stated.