SCOTUS

[Jeff Lebowski]

Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if that bankruptcy option was made legal? Vast majority of people have zero assets when they finish college. Take out a huge loan, finish college, declare bankruptcy, get on with your life. Boom. Who wouldn’t do that?

[Jeff Lebowski]

The "what about PPP, bailouts, etc" responses really bug me. Even Biden has been doing this (or his intern) on the official Biden twitter account. Don't defend something by pointing to something else that you think is equally bad. It's lazy and disingenuous and a terrible way to debate or change minds.

[Moliere]

Big businesses are allowed to discharge debt through bankruptcy, you can't do that with student loan debt. That's a double standard.

All of these students that took out loans were made aware that their loans couldn’t be discharged in bankruptcy. That’s not a new provision that was added in after the fact. They agreed to those terms and need to abide by them.

There’s a reason student loans can’t be discharged through bankruptcy and corporate loans can. Corporate loans are generally secured by corporate assets. Corporate loans also have provisions that limit things like certain divestitures, dividends payments, distributions, and other capital transactions so it’s not like corporations can do whatever they want with their money while they have outstanding loans. Students don’t have collateral to secure student loans. When a corporation goes bankrupt it’s an incredibly painful process for the debt holders and for the company, not to mention the equity holders that generally lose everything they owned in the company. Bankruptcy isn’t a magic wand that gets waived and the debt disappears and everyone goes on their merry way.

Congress should act to make all loans backed by the federal government and also allow for them to be discharged in bankruptcy. But the president doesn’t have that power unless congress gives it to him.

[Northwestcoug]

I'm not sure I follow the logic...but then again Millenials aren't really known for being logical. They won't vote for Biden because his plan to forgive student loans got overturned by a conservative majority at the SCOTUS? Bernie's plan would be overturned as well as would Warren. Odd they would stay home and not vote for Biden when he didn what they wanted but that pesky Constitution got in the way of his dictatorship desires.

Our country is built on the backs of law and contracts. These students signed a contract that said they'd get money for an education but they had to pay that money back. There is no deception in that contract as it's a written contract that they have access to and can read the terms and conditions.

You borrow money, you pay it back one way or the other.

No, it's more like millennials weren't jazzed about Biden in the first place. So he throws them a bone that they want, but it doesn't happen after all, and now they're not enthusiastic about voting for him in 2024.

My daughter won't be affected much by the ruling. She'll be in an income bracket that would have only forgiven 10K of her loans had it gone through. She's more worried about the income-based repayment, which with 400K in loans is a necessity. It sounds like that's still kosher. Still, she's very 'meh' on Biden.

[BigFatMeanie]

No, it's more like millennials weren't jazzed about Biden in the first place. So he throws them a bone that they want, but it doesn't happen after all, and now they're not enthusiastic about voting for him in 2024.

My daughter won't be affected much by the ruling. She'll be in an income bracket that would have only forgiven 10K of her loans had it gone through. She's more worried about the income-based repayment, which with 400K in loans is a necessity. It sounds like that's still kosher. Still, she's very 'meh' on Biden.

400K in student loans? Is that a typo?

[Northwestcoug]

400K in student loans? Is that a typo?

That is not a typo . I think it's closer to 380K, but still. That's just med school loans. It's a little higher than the average private med school debt. And that amount has an interest rate of 5-7%. thankfully the interest didn't accrue during COVID times.

[Jeff Lebowski]

400K in student loans? Is that a typo?

Very typical for med school.

[BigFatMeanie]

Yowza, that's a lot of money. Can she do something like be a doctor in a rural area for some number of years and "earn" forgiveness?

[Jeff Lebowski]

By the way, the NYT The Daily podcast for Friday was on the affirmative action ruling and it was very good - balanced, thorough, and informative. Highly recommended. I hope the do one on the student loan decision on Monday.

Among other things, I learned that the "they need a leg up to compensate for historical wrongs" is a justification for affirmative action that was rejected by the court years ago. The accepted justification for AA was that it led to diversity on campuses and that factor was so important that it trumped discrimination issues. The majority ruling dissected the problems with that justification. Also, 20 years ago in conjunction with a prior ruling, Sandra Day O'Connor wrote that AA should is a temporary things and should be abandoned in 25 years.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yowza, that's a lot of money. Can she do something like be a doctor in a rural area for some number of years and "earn" forgiveness?

Yes. Also, some places are so desperate for doctors that they help pay off your loans as part of the offer package. This was the case with my son. And he passed on a ton of offers from rural clinics that would have paid it off completely.

[frank ryan]

Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if that bankruptcy option was made legal? Vast majority of people have zero assets when they finish college. Take out a huge loan, finish college, declare bankruptcy, get on with your life. Boom. Who wouldn’t do that?

It used to be legal when the program was established.
The histrionics over this, and over wanting to address this get a bit cumbersome. Disagree with it sure, but let's not act like this is scandalous level shit without any merit.

Let's have a less educated society or keep it as the domain of the upper class.

[frank ryan]

Yes. Also, some places are so desperate for doctors that they help pay off your loans as part of the offer package. This was the case with my son. And he passed on a ton of offers from rural clinics that would have paid it off completely.

Cool for doctors, but not everyone should or needs to be a doctor. Shouldn't we dislike those programs for giving handouts or rescuing people from debt?

[Clark Addison]

I know plenty of very large businesses that went bankrupt. The liberal talking points on this just don’t strike a chord with working class people. There’s no reason that small usines owners or tradespeople should be bailing out college students. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if Biden really cares about helping low in me people through debt forgiveness he’s cancel credit card debt and/or small business loans.

Whoa, whoa whoa, whoa whoa!!! Hold up there for a minute!!!

[Bo Diddley]

By the way, the NYT The Daily podcast for Friday was on the affirmative action ruling and it was very good - balanced, thorough, and informative. Highly recommended. I hope the do one on the student loan decision on Monday.

Among other things, I learned that the "they need a leg up to compensate for historical wrongs" is a justification for affirmative action that was rejected by the court years ago. The accepted justification for AA was that it led to diversity on campuses and that factor was so important that it trumped discrimination issues. The majority ruling dissected the problems with that justification. Also, 20 years ago in conjunction with a prior ruling, Sandra Day O'Connor wrote that AA should is a temporary things and should be abandoned in 25 years.

Exactly. How on Earth is this throwing out precedent?

[Moliere]

No, it's more like millennials weren't jazzed about Biden in the first place. So he throws them a bone that they want, but it doesn't happen after all, and now they're not enthusiastic about voting for him in 2024.

My daughter won't be affected much by the ruling. She'll be in an income bracket that would have only forgiven 10K of her loans had it gone through. She's more worried about the income-based repayment, which with 400K in loans is a necessity. It sounds like that's still kosher. Still, she's very 'meh' on Biden.

Your daughter with a medical school degree will likely be in the top 1% of earners in the USA. She’ll be able to pay off her loans and still enjoy an upper middle class lifestyle.