Ukraine - somebody explain to me

[chrisrenrut]

Perhaps Zelensky put on a show for the purpose of European support as he figured its pointless with the US. Don't know. Otherwise, he played his hand wrong. Macron went in the oval office flattering Trump, transparently so obvious, but it worked because Trump is a child seeking attention.

Zelenskyy is correct to stand up to bullies. Putin, Trump, and his lapdog Vance. Macron and the British PM can afford to stroke Trumps ego. Zelenskyy is fighting for his country’s very existence. If there had been some discussion about stronger long term security guarantees, this goes a lot different. But Zelenskyy wasn’t going to sign or bow down without that.

And now multiple European leaders are doubling down their support of Ukraine on Twitter.

[USUC]

Zelenskyy is correct to stand up to bullies. Putin, Trump, and his lapdog Vance. Macron and the British PM can afford to stroke Trumps ego. Zelenskyy is fighting for his country’s very existence. If there had been some discussion about stronger long term security guarantees, this goes a lot different. But Zelenskyy wasn’t going to sign or bow down without that.

And now multiple European leaders are doubling down their support of Ukraine on Twitter.

Again, maybe your final sentence is the reason he snapped back at Vance. We'll see if the Europeans can tangibly deliver. I doubt it, but we'll see.

The fact that Zelensky is fighting for his country's very existence is probably reason enough to not play his cards like he did today. Trump won't give unless there is groveling. I think it's gross but it's the reality and when you're existence is dependent on the US, you can't yourself play games. This isn't dealing with a bully on the school yard. The stakes are infinitely higher.

[frank ryan]

Again, maybe your final sentence is the reason he snapped back at Vance. We'll see if the Europeans can tangibly deliver. I doubt it, but we'll see.

The fact that Zelensky is fighting for his country's very existence is probably reason enough to not play his cards like he did today. Trump won't give unless there is groveling. I think it's gross but it's the reality and when your existence is dependent on the US, you can't yourself play games. This isn't dealing with a bully on the school yard. The stakes are infinitely higher.

There is no playing your cards right with Trump. Not in this issue. Trump won't ever do enough to help secure Ukraine at the expense of Russian interests.

[USUC]

There is no playing your cards right with Trump. Not in this issue. Trump won't ever do enough to help secure Ukraine at the expense of Russian interests.

Could also very well be true.

[frank ryan]

That'll be up to who the Democrats nominate.

Oh dear. Let's not do the whole blame the democrats for Trump thing. Hillary, Biden and Harris were all better than Trump. The GOP was not forced to trot him out there as a candidate 3 times

[USUC]

Oh dear. Let's not do the whole blame the democrats for Trump thing. Hillary, Biden and Harris were all better than Trump. The GOP was not forced to trot him out there as a candidate 3 times

The country is split like 49% -49% - 2%. Yes, the candidate makes all the difference. I don't blame democrats for Trump, that's on the GOP. But I blame them for not selecting candidates to beat Trump.

[myboynoah]

I posit that the delusional and even the average MAGA supporter doesn't

really give a crap about U.S. prestige in the international community and whether said prestige is high or low.

My twitter feed has been full of MAGAbots exulting over how “the world finally respects us,” so plenty of evidence that they do care. But they are Neanderthals thinking that growling and trying to push other countries around begets respect and obeisance.

VP Hillbilly once again showed himself fully unserious with his quip asking Zelenskyy if he had ever thanked the US for the assistance.

[myboynoah]

Guys, you are really overreacting. Maybe you should take the L and chill for a while to see what shakes out.

lol

The gift that keeps on giving.

[frank ryan]

The country is split like 49% -49% - 2%. Yes, the candidate makes all the difference. I don't blame democrats for Trump, that's on the GOP. But I blame them for not selecting candidates to beat Trump.

I don't think it mattered who they picked. There was not justification for picking Trump. 3 times. Including after a coup attempt.

[BlueK]

Guys, you are really overreacting. Maybe you should take the L and chill for a while to see what shakes out.

Please describe a realistic scenario how things will turn out well for the US on the world stage and at home.

[PaloAltoCougar]

With time on my hands, I watched the entire sit-down in the Oval Office today and feel even worse about how the U.S. presented itself. I began watching by trying to be as objective and as disinterested as possible but I couldn't exclude the following facts from my consciousness: (i) Putin invaded Ukraine, (ii) Putin gave permission to Russian soldiers to rape and kill civilians, (iii) Putin authorized the kidnapping of many thousands of Ukrainian children with instructions to change their names, citizenship, and citizenship; and (iv) Putin has authorized the bombing of Ukrainian hospitals and schools and the killing of many thousands of civilians.

Yet Trump said nothing bad or critical about Putin, only that Putin had to suffer through the Russian hoax as Trump had. This is mind-numbing. And lapdog Vance rushing to Trump's defense while chiding Zelensky for not saying thank you (a lie), without expressing any empathy for the suffering Putin has imposed on a sovereign nation is disgusting.

Oh, and for a few minutes early on in the meeting Trump talked a lot of about "raw earth" and how we would get lots of "raw earth" from Ukraine. As usual, Trump's understanding of an issue is gossamer thin.

[SteelBlue]

Please describe a realistic scenario how things will turn out well for the US on the world stage and at home.

You're the second person to fall for this. He's quoting Shaka.

[USUC]

I don't think it mattered who they picked. There was not justification for picking Trump. 3 times. Including after a coup attempt.

It did matter who they picked. Heir apparent Hillary Clinton was way too hated by the general population. Biden in 2020 was the right candidate and he won. 2024 Biden was a disaster and Kamala Harris became defacto candidate late in the process blocking any other potential candidates before they could get started. And it couldn't have gone worse.

[YOhio]

I think Zelensky is done. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the weekend.

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Watching some of the video it is clear that Zelensky was trying to play the game with Trump. But he reacted to Vance and it went to hell.

I just saw this tweet. It's depressing. Is it wrong? If so, what are the other options?

[USUC]

You're the second person to fall for this. He's quoting Shaka.

I was the first apparently