Ukraine - somebody explain to me

[I.J. Reilly]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...d74_story.html

The Post has some real hawks on staff. Krauthammer is among them. I'm sure he'd love to see the US directly confront Russia on Ukraine. If the US did this you could add it to the list of disasters that he has supported including funding the Contras, backing the proto-Taliban in Afghanistan, and invading Iraq.

Looking at his record, I'm not sure why his opinion on the matter should be given any weight.

[Topper]

The Post has some real hawks on staff. Krauthammer is among them. I'm sure he'd love to see the US directly confront Russia on Ukraine. If the US did this you could add it to the list of disasters that he has supported including funding the Contras, backing the proto-Taliban in Afghanistan, and invading Iraq.

Looking at his record, I'm not sure why his opinion on the matter should be given any weight.

However, the reason Putin believes he may do whatever he pleases is Obama's previous dealings with him. He should not have dismantled the missile defense system in Poland. Obama's foreign policy in relation to Russia has been nothing short of disastrous.

Most agree confronting Russia over Crimea would lead to bad results. But why are we here? There is no accountability for this administration in its foreign policy misadventures.

[Topper]

If I were Estonia, I'd start ethnic cleansing immediately. Dont kill them-- just force them back to Russia, citing concerns for state security.

That would be a good policy. If you don't force them to leave, Russia will repatriate your entire country.

[USUC]

On its current path, Russia will run out of money and their economy will be in shambles. Not worth the loss of life in the short term.

[Bo Diddley]

That would be a good policy. If you don't force them to leave, Russia will repatriate your entire country.

Or if you start forcing them to leave, you give Russia an excuse to repatriate your entire country.

[snowcat]

On its current path, Russia will run out of money and their economy will be in shambles. Not worth the loss of life in the short term.

The economic battle appears to be the best weapon for the west on this. The US needs to do everything it can to protect the EU from economic backlash (ramp up natural gas production and exports).

[Topper]

The economic battle appears to be the best weapon for the west on this. The US needs to do everything it can to protect the EU from economic backlash (ramp up natural gas production and exports).

Are we positioned enough to be able to combat that? What will we sacrifice in helping out?

[USUC]

The economic battle appears to be the best weapon for the west on this. The US needs to do everything it can to protect the EU from economic backlash (ramp up natural gas production and exports).

Yep. It'll be a nice boon to the US economy. Ukraine is not going to be stable any time soon. Russia will ensure the east and south are volatile. Ukraine is kind of in a damned if you do, damned of you don't situation. If they try to reign in the unrest in the east, Russia will move in to protect ethnic Russians. If Ukraine does nothing, the country is unstable. Plus the far-right can mess things up further.

[byu71]

From my perspective the problem with President Obama is he always seems to have one toe in and one toe out. He lives in a la la land many progessives live in. Let's do this and hope it all works out. We have to pass the bill to know what's in it? Now we know what's in it let's change it 30,40,50....times hoping eventually it will work. How would you like to run a division of a large corporation with a boss that functions that way?

If it really is important to our vital interest Putin doesn't keep expanding, we need to do something bold and concrete, even if we have to have some pain. We hit him hard with economic sanctions.

Or, if the Europeans don't feel it is important enough to thwart Putin and won't assist us in laying the economic law down to him, let's really decide not to be everyone's Savior. Tell the Eurpoeans we have our own economy, our own poor people and our own debt to worry about. We are pulling our troops out of Europe and they can fend for themselves.

Is the cost to us to provide the safety umbrella for all our so called allies really worth it?

Put on the really hard sanctions or let's go the other way. Sitting, waiting and hoping is no way to lead.

[TripletDaddy]

From my perspective the problem with President Obama is he always seems to have one toe in and one toe out. He lives in a la la land many progessives live in. Let's do this and hope it all works out. We have to pass the bill to know what's in it? Now we know what's in it let's change it 30,40,50....times hoping eventually it will work. How would you like to run a division of a large corporation with a boss that functions that way?

If it really is important to our vital interest Putin doesn't keep expanding, we need to do something bold and concrete, even if we have to have some pain. We hit him hard with economic sanctions.

Or, if the Europeans don't feel it is important enough to thwart Putin and won't assist us in laying the economic law down to him, let's really decide not to be everyone's Savior. Tell the Eurpoeans we have our own economy, our own poor people and our own debt to worry about. We are pulling our troops out of Europe and they can fend for themselves.

Is the cost to us to provide the safety umbrella for all our so called allies really worth it?

Put on the really hard sanctions or let's go the other way. Sitting, waiting and hoping is no way to lead.

Economic sanctions against Russia or completely pull out of Europe, including all military, financial, and socioeconomic interests. Those are great ideas. I'm surprised you didn't mention nuclear war. We might have some pain because of it, but at least it would be bold and concrete.

[USUC]

From my perspective the problem with President Obama is he always seems to have one toe in and one toe out. He lives in a la la land many progessives live in. Let's do this and hope it all works out. We have to pass the bill to know what's in it? Now we know what's in it let's change it 30,40,50....times hoping eventually it will work. How would you like to run a division of a large corporation with a boss that functions that way?

If it really is important to our vital interest Putin doesn't keep expanding, we need to do something bold and concrete, even if we have to have some pain. We hit him hard with economic sanctions.

Or, if the Europeans don't feel it is important enough to thwart Putin and won't assist us in laying the economic law down to him, let's really decide not to be everyone's Savior. Tell the Eurpoeans we have our own economy, our own poor people and our own debt to worry about. We are pulling our troops out of Europe and they can fend for themselves.

Is the cost to us to provide the safety umbrella for all our so called allies really worth it?

Put on the really hard sanctions or let's go the other way. Sitting, waiting and hoping is no way to lead.

How about something as bold as signing free trade agreements with countries looking to get out from under Russia's thumb?

[CardiacCoug]

If the US did this you could add it to the list of disasters that he has supported including funding the Contras, backing the proto-Taliban in Afghanistan, and invading Iraq.

I agree. Russia taking back Crimea is not remotely analogous to Hitler in the Sudetenland -- the way Hillary Clinton and McCain and others have made those comparisons is ridiculous.

Crimea really might just have well have been a part of Russia all along anyway -- the only reason Crimea switched from being part of the Russian SSR to the Ukrainian SSR in 1954 was because under the USSR it made no difference -- like moving from one state to another.

I think some sanctions against Russia and making sure Putin knows this is as far as it goes is all the response that is necessary.

[creekster]

I agree. Russia taking back Crimea is not remotely analogous to Hitler in the Sudetenland -- the way Hillary Clinton and McCain and others have made those comparisons is ridiculous.

FTR, my reference to Sudentland II earlier in the thread meant the way the Czechs dealt with Germans following the Nazi defeat.

[SeattleUte]

Economic sanctions against Russia or completely pull out of Europe, including all military, financial, and socioeconomic interests. Those are great ideas. I'm surprised you didn't mention nuclear war. We might have some pain because of it, but at least it would be bold and concrete.

He said hard sanctions. Where's your reading comprehension?

[CardiacCoug]

FTR, my reference to Sudentland II earlier in the thread meant the way the Czechs dealt with Germans following the Nazi defeat.

Sure, I wasn't talking about this thread. I was talking about Fox News types who want to compare Obama to Neville Chamberlain.