Ukraine - somebody explain to me

[Bo Diddley]

Booo!

Turkish authorities are planning to create a separate airline to transport Russian tourists to resorts, according to a report in Turkish media.

"The escalation of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine has led to problems in the tourism sector in Turkey, as both markets have been very important for business," the Turkish newspaper Sabah wrote, citing reports from Russia's Interfax news agency.

The new airline will reportedly be based in the city of Antalya, on Turkey's Mediterranean coast.

"Thanks to this airline, it will be possible to attract an additional million Russian tourists," the publication says.

In addition, Turkish Airlines has reportedly agreed with Russian tour operators to reserve "blocks" of seats for Russian tourists on their flights.

[Bo Diddley]

This thread highlights some of the problems at the core of Russia's Army.

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I'm hopeful the Ukrainian Army will continue to dominate the battlefield.

[Goatnapper'96]

This thread highlights some of the problems at the core of Russia's Army.

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I'm hopeful the Ukrainian Army will continue to dominate the battlefield.

We would rout the Russians in a conventional battle. They suck at small scale combined arms operations because their entire military history is pound people into submission. Seeking to decentralize decision making and using mobility and maneuver is not something they can or will be able to do. As I think you pointed out that is why so many Generals are so close to the front lines and dying-their Army is controlled by high ranking officers. We would destroy them in a conventional fight.

Quick story on the difference between us and the godless commies....I attended the Armor Basic Course in 1996 at Fort Knox. While I was there a Russian General came to tour the Armor Center at Fort Knox. Part of his tour included an aerial view tour of the post on the CG's chopper-I imagine it was a UH-60 Blackhawk. Before the chopper lifts off the Crew Chief is doing his final inspection for serviceable and properly deployed seatbelts. The godless commie General had not properly connected his seat belt. The Crew Chief twice motioned to the General to attach his seat belt and the guy ignored him the first time and then nodded "nyet" the second time. At that point the Crew Chief back away from the chopper and got on his internal comm and told the pilot to shut it down. Once the engine went silent he went to the godless commie General and told him: "Sir, this chopper will not take off until I give the pilot the go ahead that all passengers are properly secured by their seatbelts." To this the Godless Commie looked at the Fort Knox CG and said "Can't you just order the pilot to take off?" To which the USCG said: "in the US Army we decentralize power and decision making procedures to the lowest level. This man has been promoted to his position because he has proven his professionalism and competency. The Army trusts him to do his job which is to make sure all passengers are safe. I outrank him, but he has more power as to whether or not this chopper will take off and we will not take off until you buckle your seatbelt." The Russian General was totally amazed and just could not figure out how the enlisted soldier, and a black enlisted soldier at that, seemed to him to "outrank" the posts Commanding General. "No One is More Professional than I!"

[Jeff Lebowski]

We would rout the Russians in a conventional battle. They suck at small scale combined arms operations because their entire military history is pound people into submission. Seeking to decentralize decision making and using mobility and maneuver is not something they can or will be able to do. As I think you pointed out that is why so many Generals are so close to the front lines and dying-their Army is controlled by high ranking officers. We would destroy them in a conventional fight.

Quick story on the difference between us and the godless commies....I attended the Armor Basic Course in 1996 at Fort Knox. While I was there a Russian General came to tour the Armor Center at Fort Knox. Part of his tour included an aerial view tour of the post on the CG's chopper-I imagine it was a UH-60 Blackhawk. Before the chopper lifts off the Crew Chief is doing his final inspection for serviceable and properly deployed seatbelts. The godless commie General had not properly connected his seat belt. The Crew Chief twice motioned to the General to attach his seat belt and the guy ignored him the first time and then nodded "nyet" the second time. At that point the Crew Chief back away from the chopper and got on his internal comm and told the pilot to shut it down. Once the engine went silent he went to the godless commie General and told him: "Sir, this chopper will not take off until I give the pilot the go ahead that all passengers are properly secured by their seatbelts." To this the Godless Commie looked at the Fort Knox CG and said "Can't you just order the pilot to take off?" To which the USCG said: "in the US Army we decentralize power and decision making procedures to the lowest level. This man has been promoted to his position because he has proven his professionalism and competency. The Army trusts him to do his job which is to make sure all passengers are safe. I outrank him, but he has more power as to whether or not this chopper will take off and we will not take off until you buckle your seatbelt." The Russian General was totally amazed and just could not figure out how the enlisted soldier, and a black enlisted soldier at that, seemed to him to "outrank" the posts Commanding General. "No One is More Professional than I!"

Great story.

I hope the russians get destroyed in the east.

[Bo Diddley]

We would rout the Russians in a conventional battle. They suck at small scale combined arms operations because their entire military history is pound people into submission. Seeking to decentralize decision making and using mobility and maneuver is not something they can or will be able to do. As I think you pointed out that is why so many Generals are so close to the front lines and dying-their Army is controlled by high ranking officers. We would destroy them in a conventional fight.

Quick story on the difference between us and the godless commies....I attended the Armor Basic Course in 1996 at Fort Knox. While I was there a Russian General came to tour the Armor Center at Fort Knox. Part of his tour included an aerial view tour of the post on the CG's chopper-I imagine it was a UH-60 Blackhawk. Before the chopper lifts off the Crew Chief is doing his final inspection for serviceable and properly deployed seatbelts. The godless commie General had not properly connected his seat belt. The Crew Chief twice motioned to the General to attach his seat belt and the guy ignored him the first time and then nodded "nyet" the second time. At that point the Crew Chief back away from the chopper and got on his internal comm and told the pilot to shut it down. Once the engine went silent he went to the godless commie General and told him: "Sir, this chopper will not take off until I give the pilot the go ahead that all passengers are properly secured by their seatbelts." To this the Godless Commie looked at the Fort Knox CG and said "Can't you just order the pilot to take off?" To which the USCG said: "in the US Army we decentralize power and decision making procedures to the lowest level. This man has been promoted to his position because he has proven his professionalism and competency. The Army trusts him to do his job which is to make sure all passengers are safe. I outrank him, but he has more power as to whether or not this chopper will take off and we will not take off until you buckle your seatbelt." The Russian General was totally amazed and just could not figure out how the enlisted soldier, and a black enlisted soldier at that, seemed to him to "outrank" the posts Commanding General. "No One is More Professional than I!"

After this war they need to completely rethink how they operate. I doubt they will make any meaningful changes, and I'm happy about that.

I may have mentioned this, but I saw the same mentality in the Azeri Army when we trained with them a dozen years ago. I was an NCO back then, and my counter-part was an Azeri captain. So dysfunctional!

[Goatnapper'96]

After this war they need to completely rethink how they operate. I doubt they will make any meaningful changes, and I'm happy about that.

I may have mentioned this, but I saw the same mentality in the Azeri Army when we trained with them a dozen years ago. I was an NCO back then, and my counter-part was an Azeri captain. So dysfunctional!

I don't think they can. Their culture is not congruent with decentralizing decision making to lower levels. Big, bulky and slow focussed on maximum firepower at the expense of maneuverability is what they are as a people. My guess is the godless commie General from my above story went away thinking the US Army is led by wussies who let black enlisted men boss them around and how Mother Russia would beat down the Yankee hordes no matter what the EM-50 project did at the end of Stripes!

They are what they are. We are what we are...thats the facts-Jack!

[Bo Diddley]

I don't think they can. Their culture is not congruent with decentralizing decision making to lower levels. Big, bulky and slow focussed on maximum firepower at the expense of maneuverability is what they are as a people. My guess is the godless commie General from my above story went away thinking the US Army is led by wussies who let black enlisted men boss them around and how Mother Russia would beat down the Yankee hordes no matter what the EM-50 project did at the end of Stripes!

They are what they are. We are what we are...thats the facts-Jack!

Right. It's so deep in their culture now. I think with nukes in their back pocket, they have little incentive to change as we obviously won't openly confront them with our forces.

They will continue to throw soldiers into the meat grinder and slowly achieve their objectives.

[Bo Diddley]

Uh oh.

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[BigFatMeanie]

Uh oh.

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I'm somewhat skeptical because the report comes from the Azov Regiment, who really are neo-Nazis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

As with most effective propaganda, there is a small element of truth to the anti-Nazi propaganda that Putin has spouted to justify his invasion, and there is a reason in addition to geography that Mariupol is getting leveled more than, say, Kharkiv,.

My ideal scenario would be for the Azov whackjobs and the Russians to somehow kill each other off without impacting any non-Azov Ukranians.

[Bo Diddley]

I'm somewhat skeptical because the report comes from the Azov Regiment, who really are neo-Nazis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

As with most effective propaganda, there is a small element of truth to the anti-Nazi propaganda that Putin has spouted to justify his invasion, and there is a reason in addition to geography that Mariupol is getting leveled more than, say, Kharkiv,.

My ideal scenario would be for the Azov whackjobs and the Russians to somehow kill each other off without impacting any non-Azov Ukranians.

Interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's Twitter, and by itself easily disinformation. If there are legs to it, we'll hear much more about it soon enough.

[myboynoah]

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[BlueK]

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And the fact that the extreme right in this country still loves Russia and essentially chooses to get their "news" from there is

[Goatnapper'96]

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It also sounds like there is also a Stalinist sized forced migration going on over there. At West Point they would scramble a class, usually after the 1st or 2nd year there. I wrote a paper in my Cultural Anthropology class that West Point was mimicking Soviet Godless Commies in an effort to force loyalty to overall Academy cultural values instead of the company cultural values that would grow in the individual 36 cadet companies.

[Bo Diddley]

It also sounds like there is also a Stalinist sized forced migration going on over there. At West Point they would scramble a class, usually after the 1st or 2nd year there. I wrote a paper in my Cultural Anthropology class that West Point was mimicking Soviet Godless Commies in an effort to force loyalty to overall Academy cultural values instead of the company cultural values that would grow in the individual 36 cadet companies.

[Goatnapper'96]

Saying that the Academy had a point. My plebe year, 90-91, was the last year where the graduating class had spent all 4 years together in the same cadet companies. Those dudes were tight with each other and I thought the scrambling of classes stole a bit of that brotherhood. But that cadet company was out on the fringes of the cadet barracks on its own and some less than virtuous company values had developed over the years. I can't recall how many times I went to call minutes for breakfast formation on the first class floor in then Lee Barracks, I doubt it is called Lee Barracks anymore, and had to step around puddles of vomit. As first-class cadets they had off post privileges and often they went out as the "Hawg Drinking Team" and the consequences were not always ascetically or olfactory pleasing.