Ukraine - somebody explain to me

[Jeff Lebowski]

And Putin offered them a cease fire but Zelenskyy would rather let his citizens die in war and even meet with the Russians to discuss the details. He is betting that Putin will follow through on his threats to attack the west and draw NATO in a world war against Russia and China.

Meet with them to what? Discuss a surrender? Please don't be so dumb.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Over the past couple of weeks I've had many discussions with Czechs, Poles, and (former East) Germans, and every single person I've spoken to has been very firm in their opposition to Putin and their support for Ukraine. Nobody trusts Russia (no reason to), and they fear if Zelensky gives up the eastern chunk of Ukraine, that will merely embolden Putin whose greatest wish is to return to the days of the USSR. This is truly seen as an existential threat, not only to Ukraine but to every other country that borders Russia.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Over the past couple of weeks I've had many discussions with Czechs, Poles, and (former East) Germans, and every single person I've spoken to has been very firm in their opposition to Putin and their support for Ukraine. Nobody trusts Russia (no reason to), and they fear if Zelensky gives up the eastern chunk of Ukraine, that will merely embolden Putin whose greatest wish is to return to the days of the USSR. This is truly seen as an existential threat, not only to Ukraine but to every other country that borders Russia.

Yes. And this doesn't take any kind of foreign policy genius. Putin has been very explicit and open about this intentions.

[Uncle Ted]

Over the past couple of weeks I've had many discussions with Czechs, Poles, and (former East) Germans, and every single person I've spoken to has been very firm in their opposition to Putin and their support for Ukraine. Nobody trusts Russia (no reason to), and they fear if Zelensky gives up the eastern chunk of Ukraine, that will merely embolden Putin whose greatest wish is to return to the days of the USSR. This is truly seen as an existential threat, not only to Ukraine but to every other country that borders Russia.

Your friends should have talked Ukraine out of giving all their nukes to Russia... that was like giving up all your guns to the government.

51096813_1007647919425394_3598686512440410112_n.jpg

[beefytee]

Not following your logic here? You think the Ukrainian government should not have given up their nukes, because government should be restrained and minimize? Or maybe common citizens in the Ukrain should have had nukes, like guns?

[PaloAltoCougar]

Ukraine gave up its nukes because the signatories to the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, including Russia, agreed not to use military force against Ukraine. Putin has violated that document, in spades. But there are those who absurdly believe that if Ukraine will agree to a ceasefire with Russia and allow Putin to keep his ill-gotten gains, we can trust him not to do this ever again.

[frank ryan]

Your friends should have talked Ukraine out of giving all their nukes to Russia... that was like giving up all your guns to the government.

51096813_1007647919425394_3598686512440410112_n.jpg

Paul, is like any other politician because is a flaming hypocrite. He is also in the tank for Russia. He went to Moscow a few years back with some other republicans and mingled with the Putin regime. He even hand delivered a letter from Trump to Putin


"I was honoured to deliver a letter from President Trump to President Vladimir Putin’s administration. The letter emphasized the importance of further engagement in various areas including countering terrorism, enhancing legislative dialogue and resuming cultural exchanges," Paul wrote in a Twitter post.
The White House said the Republican president had provided Paul with a "letter of introduction" for his trip at the senator's request.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1KT1Q8/


He's not a neutral source of insight here.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Rand Paul is a horrible person.

[USUC]

The libertarian movement's successes during the 20th century has led to a lot of libertarian minded academics in universities today. But the movement has become dominated by pop libertarians who are equally as terrible as the pop nationalists and pop socialists who dominate social media. None of these people are serious. We as a society have not found a way to navigate the new social media world in a healthy way yet. I beleive we will but every philosophical movement today has been co-opted by narcissist grifters.

It's quite simple. Putin invaded a sovereign country. He is a warmonger. He is a colonist. He has engaged in meddling behavior. All the things the US antiwar advocates say the US is guilty of, Putin is guilty of twofold. While I believe Europe should be more involved, Ukraine are the good guys here.

[BlueK]

The libertarian movement's successes during the 20th century has led to a lot of libertarian minded academics in universities today. But the movement has become dominated by pop libertarians who are equally as terrible as the pop nationalists and pop socialists who dominate social media. None of these people are serious. We as a society have not found a way to navigate the new social media world in a healthy way yet. I beleive we will but every philosophical movement today has been co-opted by narcissist grifters.

It's quite simple. Putin invaded a sovereign country. He is a warmonger. He is a colonist. He has engaged in meddling behavior. All the things the US antiwar advocates say the US is guilty of, Putin is guilty of twofold. While I believe Europe should be more involved, Ukraine are the good guys here.

Well said. Putin is the exact opposite of what libertarianism is about. Rand Paul promoting him makes true Libertarians

[USUC]

Well said. Putin is the exact opposite of what libertarianism is about. Rand Paul promoting him makes true Libertarians

The face of libertarianism in the 20th century: Hayek, Friedman, Mises, Sowell, Nozick, Buchanan (James), etc.

Face of libertarianism to day: Paul, Massie, Mises Caucus (paleoconservatives), these people https://x.com/LPNH?t=AeThPqcACR0cdcfqxwV3fg&s=01

[Uncle Ted]

I wonder how much longer until Putin pulls a "Krazy Ivan" on the US...

[QUOTE]
Russia says US is responsible for deadly Ukrainian attack on Crimea

• Russia says US is responsible for strike on Crimea
• Ukraine struck Crimea with U.S.-supplied ATACMS
• Russia says U.S. personnel input flight coordinates
• Russia says at least four people killed, 124 injured

Russia said on Sunday that the United States was responsible for a Ukrainian attack on the Russian-annexed Crimean peninsula with five U.S.-supplied missiles that killed four people, including two children, and injured 151 more.

The Russian Defence Ministry said four of the U.S.-delivered Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) missiles, equipped with cluster warheads, were shot down by air defence systems and the ammunition of a fifth had detonated in mid-air.
[...]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-three-killed-nearly-100-wounded-ukrainian-atacms-attack-crimea-2024-06-23/

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[Jeff Lebowski]

You are quoting Kimdotcom? lol. Stop.

[Uncle Ted]

You are quoting Kimdotcom? lol. Stop.

No, just the video he included showing the bombing of citizens on the bench. The article above it is from Reuters Imagine if a Russian guided missiles took out citizens on a beach in the US. That’s what the US just did to Russia. Biden is playing a dangerous game with Putin. One that could pull us into a world war.

[Bo Diddley]

Biden is playing a dangerous game with Putin. One that could pull us into a world war.

Put me in, Coach.