Same-sex marriage coming to Utah

[Moliere]

The church responds to TLC program.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/articl...ng-tlc-program

Kind of a non response (I'm not saying that's bad) and obviously the church position has changed since they used to encourage marriage as a form of treatment. Nice to see them place the mormonsandgays website as the first link for more information.

[Uncle Ted]

They aren't gay. They are afflicted with same sex attraction. Huge diff.

Megan Dahlgren says her marriage remains strong, including the physical aspects of their relationship. "We do have a happy, healthy sex life," she said.

Yeah, I would have to call "BS" on the gay thing as well. Otherwise the dude would have to disclose he has a huge gay porn stash in order to get it up for his wife. Or was she artificially inseminated to have that baby? Would someone watch this show and return and report?

[Sullyute]

Yeah, I would have to call "BS" on the gay thing as well. Otherwise the dude would have to disclose he has a huge gay porn stash in order to get it up for his wife. Or was she artificially inseminated to have that baby? Would someone watch this show and return and report?

I assume that you are joking here. Sexual attraction is on a spectrum and not a simple dichotomy. So someone can be attracted to both men and women but prefer one or the other. Also, if he is truly “in love” with his spouse enough to marry her then it shouldn’t be difficult to have sexual relations with her.

[HBCoug]

I assume that you are joking here. Sexual attraction is on a spectrum and not a simple dichotomy. So someone can be attracted to both men and women but prefer one or the other. Also, if he is truly “in love” with his spouse enough to marry her then it shouldn’t be difficult to have sexual relations with her.

I can attest to this. For example, I can appreciate the attractiveness of both a CJ and a Katy Lied although I would prefer Katy and her myriad necklaces. But I don't question for a minute that CJ drives those young admins and their MILF mothers absolutely crazy!

[Uncle Ted]

I assume that you are joking here. Sexual attraction is on a spectrum and not a simple dichotomy. So someone can be attracted to both men and women but prefer one or the other. Also, if he is truly “in love” with his spouse enough to marry her then it shouldn’t be difficult to have sexual relations with her.

No, help me out here...

He could be "in love" with his wife even enough to marry her but the bedroom situation must be less than ideal for him, right? Maybe being gay and in a religion that frowns on homosexuality is like being heterosexual in a prison with members of the same sex and one just does the best they can do with what is available?

[old_gregg]

No, help me out here...

He could be "in love" with his wife even enough to marry her but the bedroom situation must be less than ideal for him, right? Maybe being gay and in a religion that frowns on homosexuality is like being heterosexual in a prison with members of the same sex and one just does the best they can do with what is available?

or maybe a hole's just a hole

[Uncle Ted]

or maybe a hole's just a hole

Oh, so I get now... it is like forcing yourself to eat salad when you really want donuts:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v...type=2&theater

edit: LOL...

No one wants to be a piece of broccoli. I want to be desired like a donut in the hands of a fat kid.

edit 2:

[Non Sequitur]

Oh, so I get now... it is like forcing yourself to eat salad when you really want donuts:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v...type=2&theater

I loved the look on the wife's face. I don't think she was digging being compared to broccoli. I wonder if it occurred to the guy that his wife might like the occasional crueller.

[Donuthole]

Oh, so I get now... it is like forcing yourself to eat salad when you really want donuts:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v...type=2&theater

edit: LOL...



edit 2:

I loved the look on the wife's face. I don't think she was digging being compared to broccoli.

Also, that is a poor analogy unless he is saying that 1) he never eats donuts (like never, ever) or 2) he occasionally has gay sex.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Craving a donut right now...

[Northwestcoug]

John Dehlin responds:

http://www.nomorestrangers.org/thing...tion-marriage/

I know he's become annoying to a few here, but his research answers a few of these questions. For the question of how these men maintain sexual relations when they identify as gay, they might be bisexual. His survey asked LBGTQ Mormons/post-Mormons on how they self-identified on the Kinsey scale. In the link above, he notes that the divorce rate amongst mixed orientation marriages is better when the spouse is bisexual rather than just homosexual, though still terrible when compared to heterosexuals.

[UVACoug]

John Dehlin responds:

http://www.nomorestrangers.org/thing...tion-marriage/

I know he's become annoying to a few here, but his research answers a few of these questions. For the question of how these men maintain sexual relations when they identify as gay, they might be bisexual. His survey asked LBGTQ Mormons/post-Mormons on how they self-identified on the Kinsey scale. In the link above, he notes that the divorce rate amongst mixed orientation marriages is better when the spouse is bisexual rather than just homosexual, though still terrible when compared to heterosexuals.

There are some interesting things in his summary of the study. Assuming that the methodology was sound, I think you still have to take it with a grain of salt because gay Mormons are living in a much different world than the majority of people who responded to the study were. The biggest difference is that most, if not all, of the respondents who had been, or were still in, a mixed-orientation marriage lied to their spouse (and possibly themselves) about their orientation when they got into the marriage. That is surely a recipe for disaster (and certain mental distress and heartache). I'm not saying that being up front and honest about it going in solves all problems, but it is certainly a difference that I think raises questions about how relevant the studies' findings are to the types of couples on the TLC show, who were open about their sexuality before getting married.

Also, it is just generally easier to talk about and acknowledge sexuality as a mormon today than it was even five years ago. It seems like a lot of the negative symptoms are consistent with others who repress their emotions. This shift in attitude that allows people to be more open about their sexuality may alleviate a lot of the stress the subjects of the study were experiencing. The church is also more open and supportive than it has been in the past (though I think there is still plenty of room for improvement).

I agree that for a mixed-orientation marriage to work, the homosexual spouse has to be somewhere closer to the center of the Kinsey scale. Hard to have a happy marriage when you find your wife repulsive in bed.

[Northwestcoug]

There are some interesting things in his summary of the study. Assuming that the methodology was sound, I think you still have to take it with a grain of salt because gay Mormons are living in a much different world than the majority of people who responded to the study were. The biggest difference is that most, if not all, of the respondents who had been, or were still in, a mixed-orientation marriage lied to their spouse (and possibly themselves) about their orientation when they got into the marriage. That is surely a recipe for disaster (and certain mental distress and heartache). I'm not saying that being up front and honest about it going in solves all problems, but it is certainly a difference that I think raises questions about how relevant the studies' findings are to the types of couples on the TLC show, who were open about their sexuality before getting married.

Also, it is just generally easier to talk about and acknowledge sexuality as a mormon today than it was even five years ago. It seems like a lot of the negative symptoms are consistent with others who repress their emotions. This shift in attitude that allows people to be more open about their sexuality may alleviate a lot of the stress the subjects of the study were experiencing. The church is also more open and supportive than it has been in the past (though I think there is still plenty of room for improvement).

I agree that for a mixed-orientation marriage to work, the homosexual spouse has to be somewhere closer to the center of the Kinsey scale. Hard to have a happy marriage when you find your wife repulsive in bed.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your first point. He exclusively surveyed LBGTQ Mormons, either current or ex.

I haven't even watched the promo for the TLC show. So the men told their spouses they were gay before they got married? That seems pretty atypical in the church.

[UVACoug]

I'm not sure I understand what you aren't understanding. The world that gay Mormon's live in today is much different than the world the majority of respondents in the study lived in in the past. And yes, the couples on the TLC show went into their marriages knowing that one of the spouses is gay. I agree that it is atypical for most people in mixed-orientation marriages, but not that atypical for new mixed-orientation marriages. I'm very skeptical that it is a good idea, but I think you have to at least acknowledge that it is a different situation than the one experienced by most people in Dehlin's study.

[Northwestcoug]

I'm not sure I understand what you aren't understanding. The world that gay Mormon's live in today is much different than the world the majority of respondents in the study lived in in the past. And yes, the couples on the TLC show went into their marriages knowing that one of the spouses is gay. I agree that it is atypical for most people in mixed-orientation marriages, but not that atypical for new mixed-orientation marriages. I'm very skeptical that it is a good idea, but I think you have to at least acknowledge that it is a different situation than the one experienced by most people in Dehlin's study.

I understand what you're saying now. But I don't think you can make the claim that today's 'gay Mormon' world is much different than those of most of the respondents'. I would assume that his population sample covered people of all ages, and those who are both 'recent' gays as well as older people.