Modesty...what does it mean?

[KillerDog]

KD,

When you have a teenage daughter, call me.

I am with MBN on this one. Better to be strict and loving than regret it later.

What if you regret being strict later? The whole thing is a veritable mine field.

[RobinFinderson]

Modesty means putting band-aids on your tatas when it gets cold so your nips don't telegraph through this:

[Surfah]

Modesty means putting band-aids on your tatas when it gets cold so your nips don't telegraph through this:

If your daughter is wearing wolf shirts then there are other issues I'm afraid.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Modesty means putting band-aids on your tatas when it gets cold so your nips don't telegraph through this:

I seriously loved the bodysuit era of 91-93. During my sophomore year there was a girl in my early morning cemetary class who was otherwise very prudish that would rock a bodysuit once every two weeks or so. She had a fantastic set of tatas and the bodysuit looked great on her. Half of the time she wore the bodysuit, I and the other guys in the class would be treated to some doorbell action. It was awesome. When Friends started up in 1994, the term changed from doorbell to "the Jennifer Aniston."

[LA Ute]

The BYU of the late 60's was a reactionary environment. It has cursed the life of many students since.

When I was a teen-ager we used to joke that Ernest Wilkinson's next book would be "Free Agency and How to Enforce It." That joke has been much-used, but I believe it started with Ernie.

[LA Ute]

One thing I hate about modesty as it is taught in YW is that it always comes down to this idea that males can't control themselves and if a woman is showing too much skin it is her fault.

I agree this is a dumb way to teach. Maybe because our stake is in the middle of the fleshpots of L.A., our YW don't get taught that way. I do think it is important to teach girls that because boys are wired differently, the girls need to understand that (a) they need to be careful about using their bodies to get attention and (b) they can make life difficult for boys when they dress immodestly. It's suprising to me how many girls -- even LDS girls from active families -- don't seem to understand (a) or (b) at all.

Somewhere between "males can't control themselves" and "wear whatever you want," there is a reasonable middle ground that teaches "males are different and you need to take that into account."

[il Padrino Ute]

One thing I hate about modesty as it is taught in YW is that it always comes down to this idea that males can't control themselves and if a woman is showing too much skin it is her fault.

I'm one who puts the blame squarely on the males.

[LA Ute]

This somehow seemed appropriate for this thread. I got it a few years back from a friend, and it still makes me smile.

*****

Fathers Know Best

Ten simple rules for dating my daughter

Rule 1: If you pull into my driveway and honk, you’d better be delivering a package, because you’re sure as heck not picking up anything.

Rule 2: Do not touch my daughter in front of me. You may glance at her, so long as you do not peer at anything below her neck. If you cannot keep your eyes or hands off of my daughter’s body, I will remove them.

Rule 3: I am aware that it is considered fashionable for boys of your age to wear their trousers so loosely that they appear to be falling off your hips. Please don’t take this as an insult, but you and all of your friends are complete idiots. Still, I want to be fair and open-minded about this issue, so I propose this compromise: You may come to the door with your underwear showing and your pants way too big, and I will not object. However, in order to ensure that your clothes do not, in fact, come off during the course of your date with my daughter, I will take my electric staple gun and fasten your trousers securely in place to your waist.

Rule 4: I’m sure you’ve been told that in today’s world, sex without utilizing a “barrier method” of some kind can kill you. Let me elaborate: When it comes to sex, I am the barrier, and I will kill you.

Rule 5: Current thinking is that in order for you and me to get to know each other, we should talk about sports, politics and other issues of the day. Please do not do this. The only information I require from you is an indication of when you expect to have my daughter safely back at my house, and the only words I need from you on this subject are “early” and “Sir.”

Rule 6: I have no doubt you are a popular fellow, with opportunities to date other girls. This is fine with me as long as it is okay with my daughter. Otherwise, once you have gone out with my little girl, you will continue to date no one but her until she is finished with you. If you make her cry, I will make you cry.

Rule 7: As you stand in my front hallway, waiting for my daughter to appear, do not sigh and fidget. If you want to be on time for the movie, you should not be dating my daughter. She is putting on her makeup, or whatever, a process that can take longer than painting the Golden Gate Bridge. Instead of just standing there, why don’t you do something useful, like changing the oil in my car?

Rule 8: The following places are not appropriate for a date with my daughter:

• Places where there are beds, sofas, or anything softer than a wooden stool
• Places where there are no parents, policemen, or nuns within eyesight
• Places that are dark or poorly lit
• Places where there is dancing, holding hands, or excessive happiness
• Places where the ambient temperature is warm enough to induce my daughter to wear shorts, tank tops, midriff T-shirts, or anything other than overalls, a sweater, and a goose down parka zipped up to her throat
• Movies with a strong romantic or sexual theme.
• Hockey games are okay.
• Old folks homes are better.

Rule 9: Do not ever lie to me. I may appear to be a middle-aged, dim witted has-been, but on issues relating to my daughter, I am the all-knowing, merciless god of your universe. If I ask you where you are going and with whom, you have one chance to tell me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I have a shotgun, a shovel and five acres behind the house. Do not mess with me.

Rule 10: Be afraid. Be very afraid. It takes very little for me to mistake the sound of your car in the driveway for a chopper coming in over a rice paddy. When my PTSD starts kicking in, the voices in my head frequently tell me to clean the guns as I wait for you to bring my daughter home. As soon as you pull into the driveway, you should exit your car with both hands in plain sight. Note that the camouflaged face at the window is mine. Speak the perimeter password, announce in a clear voice that you have brought my daughter home safely and early, then return to your car. There is no need for you to come inside.

[TripletDaddy]

I don't doubt that your wife is well-dressed, but don't kid yourself into thinking that your daughters will think she is and want to mimic her style.

I don't think they will want to wear her clothes, but if your parents know what they are doing, they can help teach kids how to shop for cool clothes that are also relatively skin-free. The kids are going to have their own styles, and like certain brands or looks, definitely. This doesn't concern me too much. I am more concerned with my daughters wearing wild outfits that leave little to the imagination.

[The_Tick]

What if you regret being strict later? The whole thing is a veritable mine field.

That isn't a regret I will have. She is 17 and on her first boyfriend. 3.3+ GPA. She is an all around good kid.

She tells her Mom and I all the time that she loves life, and loves the family.

She will be okay.

[myboynoah]

That isn't a regret I will have. She is 17 and on her first boyfriend. 3.3+ GPA. She is an all around good kid.

She tells her Mom and I all the time that she loves life, and loves the family.

She will be okay.

Excellent point. What regrets? Better she be pissed and safe than temporily happy and in trouble.

Many here can scoff at the FtSotY all you want, but raising teenagers in the current environment is a very complicated task, fraught with many risks. It is very, very different than when I was young, or even when you 30+ers were young. Having The Church provide some guidance in such an environment is comforting.

I find it odd that so many are willing to accept the global warming argument that the risks are too high not to take action, yet call very reasonable FtSotY guidelines too restrictive or out of touch. Given the personal investment, very odd indeed.

[LA Ute]

Many here can scoff at the FtSotY all you want, but raising teenagers in the current environment is a very complicated task, frought with many risks. It is very, very different than when I was young, or even when you 30+ers were young. Having The Church provide some guidance in such an environment is conforting.

Yes.

[RobinFinderson]

Regarding personal modesty and what we teach Little Robin, all I can say is this... if it gets over 95 degrees in South Central, don't drop in unexpected on the Findersons.

[myboynoah]

Regarding personal modesty and what we teach Little Robin, all I can say is this... if it gets over 95 degrees in South Central, don't drop in unexpected on the Findersons.

I appreciate the warning. I'll call first.

It's "unexpectedly." Stinking hillbilly.

[RobinFinderson]

I appreciate the warning. I'll call first.

It's "unexpectedly." Stinking hillbilly.

Here, you'll need my phone number: (213) 629-9213.