The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[Bo Diddley]

I can't think of a single thing he's done well, but that is in no small part to the directions given to him by Obama, who is really naive as it comes to foreign policy. Look at the great Secretaries of State, George C. Marshall, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, or Kissinger. Those were individuals who accomplished significant deeds setting for precedent for years and decades to come.

Kerry will be remembered for bungling Syria, the bad deal he struck with Iran, and how he's handled Russia. Re-opening Cuba? Wow. Color me under-impressed. Obama is universally a failure in foreign affairs.

Apples to oranges. It would be interesting to see the "great Secretaries of State" try to do the job today.

[creekster]

Does anyone thing Kerry/Obama did a nice job in Syria? Who thinks they handled the Iranian deal very well, particularly with the more recent revelations about the billions of dollars that we paid them? How about how we dealt with Russian aggression? All of you up in arms over Russia's meddling with our elections, any thoughts about how Russia came to feel so emboldened? What about our handling of the South China Sea? While there is no way to control China, does it feel to anyone else like we just started to check the barn door after the horse was already out? Kerry LOOKS like a great Secty of St., but I don't think he is a great statesman at all. I think he is pedestrian and reactive rather than visionary and pro-active.

[Topper]

LOL. No doubt the group of distinguished secretaries you keep trotting out were all self-made men.

George C. Marshall, "born into a middle class family and a graduate of VMI."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Marshall

Henry Kissinger, born to a German Jews, school teacher and homemaker. Kissinger escaped Nazi persecution and graduated from CUNY.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger

The others have various backgrounds. I am unaware of the others being propped up by the wealth of the inheritance through marriage.

[Topper]

Does anyone thing Kerry/Obama did a nice job in Syria? Who thinks they handled the Iranian deal very well, particularly with the more recent revelations about the billions of dollars that we paid them? How about how we dealt with Russian aggression? All of you up in arms over Russia's meddling with our elections, any thoughts about how Russia came to feel so emboldened? What about our handling of the South China Sea? While there is no way to control China, does it feel to anyone else like we just started to check the barn door after the horse was already out? Kerry LOOKS like a great Secty of St., but I don't think he is a great statesman at all. I think he is pedestrian and reactive rather than visionary and pro-active.

He is patrician so he created the appearance of dignity, no doubt through his schooling and immense wealth, but I agree completely that he has failed at every major opportunity. I do restrain some criticism because he may be limited by the failed policies of his boss.

[Northwestcoug]

George C. Marshall, "born into a middle class family and a graduate of VMI."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Marshall

Henry Kissinger, born to a German Jews, school teacher and homemaker. Kissinger escaped Nazi persecution and graduated from CUNY.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger

The others have various backgrounds. I am unaware of the others being propped up by the wealth of the inheritance through marriage.

Neither am I. But it's laughable to say he 'really has accomplished nothing in life' because he was propped up by his wife's family. Why don't you play it fair and criticize his senate and SOS record on their merits, and not trot out Limbaugh-esque pot shots.

[creekster]

Alright, I can see that about Iran. I'm not sure what could have been done differently in that situation, and the deal has a lot of potential downside. But outside of direct military intervention, there doesn't seem to be other effective options for the west.

The sanctions were strangling them. The lack of hard currency was killing them. There was a lot that we could do short of military intervention. Instead we told them the date at which they can have a nuclear weapon and we gave a government we label a supporter and instigator of terrorism BILLIONS of dollars including pallets full of non-traceable cash in multiple denominations. IOW, we pushed off the real problem for a while by paying for some time, while foregoing alternatives that had been working.

[byu71]

The democratic Senators and some Republican senators are doing a great job of showing at least the nominee for Defense and CIA are a lot harder on Russian than Donald appears to be and also more accepting of the excellence of our intelligence departments.

They don't seem like men who will back down to Trump. So they won't last or perhaps Donalds campaign views and real views differ. Those who say he isn't a politican should take note. He is as big a hypocrite as any of them. I remember on one of the networks back in the day applauding Clinton (Bill) as one of the best politicians ever. Basically it was because he could shade the Truth so well.

I will be interested to hear the presses take on attitudes of Trump and those he has chosen for the Cabinet.

[BlueK]

I guess you don't remember what the dems and press did to Romney. Let's see, he cheated on his taxes. Doesn't understand the average guy because he is so rich. He took over companies and caused people to lose jobs. Was a complete novice when it came to foreign affairs. Hell when he went after Obama one of the media set him straght. Oh and he was completely laughable when it comes to Russia. He was still living back in the cold war.

I will wait till I finish reading on the guy and listen to him before I weigh in regurgitating the dems and media talking points.

Gates and Nunn think he would do a great job. By the way what did Hillary and Kerry do that was so great that made them awesome choices for Sec. of State. Lifelong politicians. Awesome

I'm not a democrat of liberal, so none of this has anything to do with my thinking. Romney was hurt more by the stupid evangelicals in the GOP anyway. They're the ones who started all the arguments you just made and created the Dems talking points for them to use.

[Topper]

Neither am I. But it's laughable to say he 'really has accomplished nothing in life' because he was propped up by his wife's family. Why don't you play it fair and criticize his senate and SOS record on their merits, and not trot out Limbaugh-esque pot shots.

His SOS record is being adequately exposed by Goat, creekster and others. He has no notable successes as a Secretary of State.

Do you believe he would have ever been elected Senator but for his wife's money or his family status? He attended an elite boarding school, went to Yale. His bio lists his service in Vietnam but doesn't list any notable legislative achievements.

[byu71]

Do you believe he would have ever been elected Senator but for his wife's money or his family status? He attended an elite boarding school, went to Yale. His bio lists his service in Vietnam but doesn't list any notable legislative achievements.

I think he could get elected. Ivy league school. Activist. Politician.

[Topper]

I think he could get elected. Ivy league school. Activist. Politician.

Maybe. From Mass, probably. He wasn't an activist. Where did you get that?

[byu71]

Maybe. From Mass, probably. He wasn't an activist. Where did you get that?

Maybe I used the word and really don't know what it means. His anti war activity I classify as being an activist. I guess I should have googled activist before posting.

[Topper]

Maybe I used the word and really don't know what it means. His anti war activity I classify as being an activist. I guess I should have googled activist before posting.

I think of Obama as being a community activist, but there is no special meaning to be googled. Coming from elite schools, he was placed in a position of power which expanded exponentially upon hooking up with his wife's family. I seriously doubt we would know his name but for his marriage to her. There appears to be little self-made about him. Given the low litmus test for Democratic appointments is it any wonder the performance has been nothing short of under-whelming?

[Northwestcoug]

His SOS record is being adequately exposed by Goat, creekster and others. He has no notable successes as a Secretary of State.

Do you believe he would have ever been elected Senator but for his wife's money or his family status? He attended an elite boarding school, went to Yale. His bio lists his service in Vietnam but doesn't list any notable legislative achievements.

Are you referring to Teresa Heinz, whom he married in 1995, some 10 years after he became a Senator? Nice try.

[Topper]

Are you referring to Teresa Heinz, whom he married in 1995, some 10 years after he became a Senator? Nice try.

Good catch. I did not remember the date of his marriage. Touche.

On to the topic at hand, what do you believe are his successes as SoS or Senator?