The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[Northwestcoug]

This isn't necessarily a good judge of an effective diplomat. I'm going to be super annoying and go to the cliche extreme: Neville Chamberlain cooperated internationally and got things done but is universally derided. Yes you want to get along and get things done internationally, but not with everyone.

So is there another country besides Israel that Kerry has negotiated with/against, that you disapprove of? Israel gets all of the attention in conservative circles.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Good grief. Kerry has a done a great job with respect to Israel. So refreshing to see a US official tell it like it is.

Today, there are a similar number of Jews and Palestinians living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. They have a choice. They can choose to live together in one state, or they can separate into two states. But here is a fundamental reality: if the choice is one state, Israel can either be Jewish or democratic – it cannot be both –and it won’t ever really be at peace. Moreover, the Palestinians will never fully realize their vast potential in a homeland of their own with a one state solution.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...t_be_both.html

[Omaha 680]

So is there another country besides Israel that Kerry has negotiated with/against, that you disapprove of? Israel gets all of the attention in conservative circles.

Iran. Pretty much all of the middle east. Yeah it's a perpetual shit show and he wasn't dealt a good hand but to be considered a great SOS he should get something right in the region. Wrt Iran, the more we learn the more it seems we got played and basically bought them off with some dump trucks of cash for the benefit of some good press and the world's adoration of an actual deal but the deal isn't going to work. I fully expect Iran to go nuclear in the next decade just like North Korea did after our wizard deals with them. Iran will be much worse because of their terrorist connections and the complete destabilization of the region that will ensue.

Good grief. Kerry has a done a great job with respect to Israel. So refreshing to see a US official tell it like it is.

What is so earth shattering about that? I'm no expert but hasn't every Israeli PM since Barak been on board with a two state solution? The great change in Kerry is joining with the rest of the West in being more openly hostile towards Israel's interests. Yeah Netanyahu has said some nutty things lately but the US has been Israel's best friend and Kerry has signaled we don't want to be the backstop for them any more in negotiations or UN decision making. I understand you and Maximus think that's good. I disagree.

[Northwestcoug]

Iran. Pretty much all of the middle east. Yeah it's a perpetual shit show and he wasn't dealt a good hand but to be considered a great SOS he should get something right in the region. Wrt Iran, the more we learn the more it seems we got played and basically bought them off with some dump trucks of cash for the benefit of some good press and the world's adoration of an actual deal but the deal isn't going to work. I fully expect Iran to go nuclear in the next decade just like North Korea did after our wizard deals with them. Iran will be much worse because of their terrorist connections and the complete destabilization of the region that will ensue.

Alright, I can see that about Iran. I'm not sure what could have been done differently in that situation, and the deal has a lot of potential downside. But outside of direct military intervention, there doesn't seem to be other effective options for the west.

[Topper]

Iran. Pretty much all of the middle east. Yeah it's a perpetual shit show and he wasn't dealt a good hand but to be considered a great SOS he should get something right in the region. Wrt Iran, the more we learn the more it seems we got played and basically bought them off with some dump trucks of cash for the benefit of some good press and the world's adoration of an actual deal but the deal isn't going to work. I fully expect Iran to go nuclear in the next decade just like North Korea did after our wizard deals with them. Iran will be much worse because of their terrorist connections and the complete destabilization of the region that will ensue.



What is so earth shattering about that? I'm no expert but hasn't every Israeli PM since Barak been on board with a two state solution? The great change in Kerry is joining with the rest of the West in being more openly hostile towards Israel's interests. Yeah Netanyahu has said some nutty things lately but the US has been Israel's best friend and Kerry has signaled we don't want to be the backstop for them any more in negotiations or UN decision making. I understand you and Maximus think that's good. I disagree.

For Maximus, all one must do is agree with the mainstream position of the Democrats and that makes you a great Secretary of State.

There have been very few great Secretary of States.

John Quincy Adams helped acquire Florida from Spain and formulated the Monroe Doctrine.

William H. Seward under Lincoln kept France and Spain from recognizing the Southern states, and acquired Alaska from Russia.

George C. Marshall, helped formulate the Truman Doctrine, the Marshall Plan and NATO. Yeah, he never did anything.

Kissinger.

Daniel Webster.

Thomas Jefferson.

You think Kerry ranks with these giants? Really.

[Omaha 680]

Alright, I can see that about Iran. I'm not sure what could have been done differently in that situation, and the deal has a lot of potential downside. But outside of direct military intervention, there doesn't seem to be other effective options for the west.

This is where I disagree with those who have the mantra we need to always "get things done". Sometimes containment and the status quo is the only acceptable answer. Mutually assured destruction seems nuts now but it sure as hell worked when it was needed (yes I realize we came dangerously close to blowing up the world a few times...but we didn't!).

[Bo Diddley]

I'm probably in the minority on here, but I think Kerry has done a fantastic job given the hand he was dealt. America could use more statesmen like him.

[Omaha 680]

I'm probably in the minority on here, but I think Kerry has done a fantastic job given the hand he was dealt. America could use more statesmen like him.

Interesting. I don't think you are in the minority here. Would you say you are in the minority among your coworkers?

[Bo Diddley]

Interesting. I don't think you are in the minority here. Would you say you are in the minority among your coworkers?

I guess I don't follow the political threads very closely. But I'm out of town on business, so have a little extra time.

Most of my conservative coworkers don't talk much about politics. The only two I really have in depth political conversations are much more liberal than I am. If I were to guess, I would say I'm in the minority if you were to poll the military on Kerry. They'd probably take issue with the way he handled Iran and the Middle East in general, along with Russia.

[creekster]

I think Kerry bungled Syria pretty badly. Maybe Obama made him do it, but we looked inept.

[Topper]

I guess I don't follow the political threads very closely. But I'm out of town on business, so have a little extra time.

Most of my conservative coworkers don't talk much about politics. The only two I really have in depth political conversations are much more liberal than I am. If I were to guess, I would say I'm in the minority if you were to poll the military on Kerry. They'd probably take issue with the way he handled Iran and the Middle East in general, along with Russia.

I can't think of a single thing he's done well, but that is in no small part to the directions given to him by Obama, who is really naive as it comes to foreign policy. Look at the great Secretaries of State, George C. Marshall, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, or Kissinger. Those were individuals who accomplished significant deeds setting for precedent for years and decades to come.

Kerry will be remembered for bungling Syria, the bad deal he struck with Iran, and how he's handled Russia. Re-opening Cuba? Wow. Color me under-impressed. Obama is universally a failure in foreign affairs.

[myboynoah]

I differ. Kerry/Obama/HClinton has been a disaster in the Middle East.

On Syria alone Kerry stood by as the Russians marched right in, bringing the Iranians with them, to prop up Assad. The Russians and Iranians are now calling the shots. We had the chance to nix Iranian influence in the Levant. What a disaster.

[myboynoah]

Good grief. Kerry has a done a great job with respect to Israel. So refreshing to see a US official tell it like it is.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...t_be_both.html

I don't know that I'd call that a great job. He gave that speech with three weeks left in the Obama presidency. It means nothing. If he was serious, where was this two years ago?

[Topper]

I differ. Kerry/Obama/HClinton has been a disaster in the Middle East.

On Syria alone Kerry stood by as the Russians marched right in, bringing the Iranians with them, to prop up Assad. The Russians and Iranians are now calling the shots. We had the chance to nix Iranian influence in the Levant. What a disaster.

Agreed. It may be solely due to Obama's incompetence, but a great Secretary of State has enough gravamen to move his president to a sound doctrine. Kerry, who inherited his wealth through his wife's family, really has accomplished nothing in life, so it shouldn't surprise he lacks the skill sets to be a dominant Senator or a competent Secretary of State.

[Northwestcoug]

Agreed. It may be solely due to Obama's incompetence, but a great Secretary of State has enough gravamen to move his president to a sound doctrine. Kerry, who inherited his wealth through his wife's family, really has accomplished nothing in life, so it shouldn't surprise he lacks the skill sets to be a dominant Senator or a competent Secretary of State.

LOL. No doubt the group of distinguished secretaries you keep trotting out were all self-made men.